As much as I love the the sound of old analogs, I've come to the conclusion that all in all for me they're just too limited for the music I want to make. I'm into experimenting, and enjoy stuff like repeating envelopes, fast and flexible LFOs, comb filters, frequency shifters etc. which aren't typical features on old boards. Sure there are newer analog synths with more interesting features, but their sound doesn't intrigue me that much for some reason.
I'll probably get a modular in the more or less distant future, but for the moment, other than my SH-101, which is great with midbass stuff, all I want except from what I can get from my digital synths is a sound which I have problems believing can be done with anything other than older analog synths, and that's the powerful, dense and punchy lower midrange that I miss so much with the digital sound.
I can see how clever, deep programming and some eq with a powerful digital synth with high resolution like maybe the solaris could somehow get me there, but I'd like something that's closer to that tone from the get go or has it as part of its character. It doesn't have to have great bass or super snappy envelopes and doesn't have to be polyphonic, allthough it's hard to rule out unison.
Please help me find my holy grail! I'm going away working for a few mounths and need something to dream about maybe having money to buy when I come back
Without recommending an EQ in the path somewhere (even something as simple as a Boss GE-7)and a bit of overdrive...
I would have to hear what you consider 'punchy' -- Little Phatty, DSI Mono Evolver, Pro One,... I can think of alot of machines that would do punchy nicely. h**l, I can't think of many machines that don't.
Care to share a sound sample of your idea of a punchy midbass sound?
Last edited by silikon on Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The xpander can do some serious damage on the fields he's looking to modulate in, but however I dont know if that "punch bass" would come to well from it...
It may be just the best option to start building a modular
Or have a synth for sick bass, and another for great modulation.
Pretty sure what the OP is actually asking is "which synth does the best BRASS"?
Oberheims are usually mentioned for that sound, although I've no doubt others do it well too (Rolands, for example). But none of them are cheap... You could probably do well looking at the cheaper DCO/sample-based hybrids (e.g. DW8000/ESQ-1) and focusing on subtle oscillator envelope pitch bends and the filter... I think those aspects lend as much to that "full" mid-range sound as the oscillators themselves.
Cheapest solution of all is maybe an older chorus to use on a newer digital synth that is instinctively going to work best on those mid-range frequencies.
Alex E wrote:Honestly, the Virus sort of has a sound like that.
Not sure about analog synths though.
I agree in the sense that whenever I get a tone I like out of my TI, its sweetness is in the lower midrange, but I wouldn't call it dense or powerful sounding. It's a cool synth for what it does, but the oscillators sound weak in my ears.
silikon wrote:Care to share a sound sample of your idea of a punchy midbass sound?
Well, it's difficult to find something, as this is perhaps partly a tone I have in my head more than I have heard too much from synths, but the minimoog flute in shine on you crazy diamond, especially part 2 from round 9:30, although I wouldn't call a flute sound punchy, yet it has a dense midrange
[youtube][/youtube]
This is another example of a sound that has some power in the lower midrange without any negative filter envelope. It's a pretty straight forward sound, yet it doesn't sound weak or thin whith open filters or muddy/whooly when filter closing. It's the main theme. Listen from 3:11 That's a Jupiter 6 which I understand is concidered a thin sounding vintage analog.
[youtube][/youtube]
Not the best examples maybe, but I can't remember anything else right now. Will try to find some better examples.
I want something that has powerful sounding oscillators and a filter that play along in a way that the synth can make sounds with a powerful lower midrange without loosing too much presence in higher frequencies whith say half closed filters. Don't know how else to explain it. I know the SH-9 is concidered to have powerful oscillators, but I don't like any sounds from the utube demos I've heard. Maybe it's the filter.
phesago wrote:The xpander can do some serious damage on the fields he's looking to modulate in, but however I dont know if that "punch bass" would come to well from it...
It may be just the best option to start building a modular
Or have a synth for sick bass, and another for great modulation.
I'm not looking for punchy bass or midbass. For bass I'm happy with my 101. I'll check out the Xpander
tekkentool wrote:I'd argue you could achieve this with any synth was some smart processing (Argh stop hitting me AG).
Knew this would come up. I'm not that smart
Last edited by HUBA on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sir Ruff wrote:Pretty sure what the OP is actually asking is "which synth does the best BRASS"?
Not entirely untrue
Sir Ruff wrote:Oberheims are usually mentioned for that sound, although I've no doubt others do it well too (Rolands, for example). But none of them are cheap... You could probably do well looking at the cheaper DCO/sample-based hybrids (e.g. DW8000/ESQ-1) and focusing on subtle oscillator envelope pitch bends and the filter... I think those aspects lend as much to that "full" mid-range sound as the oscillators themselves.
Maybe you're right but I'm not sure if I agree. I think it's both the oscillators' strength and the filters character and how well they fit together. And some suiting filter envelope settings.
Sir Ruff wrote:Cheapest solution of all is maybe an older chorus to use on a newer digital synth that is instinctively going to work best on those mid-range frequencies.
I've actually thought quite a bit about that. Like Jupiter 6 with Boss CE-1?
HUBA wrote:Maybe you're right but I'm not sure if I agree. I think it's both the oscillators' strength and the filters character and how well they fit together. And some suiting filter envelope settings.
Yes, definitely the oscillators, but I have found (in my pursuit of the ultimate analog brass sound) that perception of detuning and phasing is the main thing, more than the oscs themselves. Analogs do subtle phasing best, period. But you can get around that with digital synths by adding very subtle pitch envelopes to on oscillator, giving it the effect of starting off detuned, and then smoothing out as it approaches the pitch of the other oscillator. Also, finding a digital synth that doesn't reset the oscillator phase on each new keypress adds to the depth of detuned oscillators.
Sir Ruff wrote:Cheapest solution of all is maybe an older chorus to use on a newer digital synth that is instinctively going to work best on those mid-range frequencies.
HUBA wrote:I've actually thought quite a bit about that. Like Jupiter 6 with Boss CE-1?
Yeah, that seems like that would work... the jup-6 sounds pretty good on its own, but the oscillators aren't exactly huge sounding, more polite and precise (typical roland to me, despite using CEM chips) so adding a chorus couldn't hurt. But something like the DW8000 is a fraction of the price, has a great filter, the ability to autobend the oscs AND has a great chorus, making it great for this kind of sound in my mind.
HUBA wrote:Maybe you're right but I'm not sure if I agree. I think it's both the oscillators' strength and the filters character and how well they fit together. And some suiting filter envelope settings.
Yes, definitely the oscillators, but I have found (in my pursuit of the ultimate analog brass sound) that perception of detuning and phasing is the main thing, more than the oscs themselves. Analogs do subtle phasing best, period. But you can get around that with digital synths by adding very subtle pitch envelopes to on oscillator, giving it the effect of starting off detuned, and then smoothing out as it approaches the pitch of the other oscillator. Also, finding a digital synth that doesn't reset the oscillator phase on each new keypress adds to the depth of detuned oscillators.
Yeah I've experimented a bit with tiny amounts of ultra slow falling saw LFO with key reset routed to pitch for that slightly out of tune sound and it works on some sounds but off course the LFO is then unusable for anything else.. I'll try it your way thanks!
Sir Ruff wrote:Cheapest solution of all is maybe an older chorus to use on a newer digital synth that is instinctively going to work best on those mid-range frequencies.
HUBA wrote:I've actually thought quite a bit about that. Like Jupiter 6 with Boss CE-1?
Sir Ruff wrote:Yeah, that seems like that would work... the jup-6 sounds pretty good on its own, but the oscillators aren't exactly huge sounding, more polite and precise (typical roland to me, despite using CEM chips) so adding a chorus couldn't hurt. But something like the DW8000 is a fraction of the price, has a great filter, the ability to autobend the oscs AND has a great chorus, making it great for this kind of sound in my mind.
Most of the video demos for the xpander do not go into great detail about modulation controls. Dont get me wrong, there are a few that arent too bad, but for the most part most of them are meh.
The only one that does any justice to the modulation controls is done by tonetweakers, and I even think it doesnt dig as deep as it should.
in monos that sound is endemic to moog and ARP 2/3-osc synths, although a maxiKorg or System100 can bring the girth as well
it's kind of a gray area, as a lot of what you're looking for can be achieved through judicious use of comp&EQ, but some of it never can. gain-staging here is crucial, too, so you would do well to try some outboard that you can hit hard while tracking for some VCA-like punch. DBX 160 or the like.... getting that elusive last ~5% right is the challenge of course, and sometimes it just isn't gonna happen without the right synth.
depending on the context, that authentic vibe is often a chore with ITB; sometimes nigh impossible, otherwise I'd say just go the ITB way and save your money!
the easy solution is to just buy a minimoog.
2600.solus.modcan a.eurorack.CS60.JP-8.JU-6.OB-Xa (6v).A6.sunsyn.JD-990.TB-303.x0xb0x.revolution.
.svc350.memotron youtube.com/shaft9000 <- various synth demos and studies
Most of the video demos for the xpander do not go into great detail about modulation controls. Dont get me wrong, there are a few that arent too bad, but for the most part most of them are meh.
The only one that does any justice to the modulation controls is done by tonetweakers, and I even think it doesnt dig as deep as it should.
Yeah I've seen that. Get stressed by watching. Not too pleasant to listen to either for the most part. It's a cool machine though. Like you say I haven't seen much about the xpander on utube that have impressed me much. It sounds a bit harsh to my ears, yet I know it can sound nice from music I've heard where I know it's used. Interesting amount of modulation sources for a vintage analog poly.. Looks awesome too
HUBA wrote:Yeah I've seen that. Get stressed by watching. Not too pleasant to listen to either for the most part. It's a cool machine though. Like you say I haven't seen much about the xpander on utube that have impressed me much. It sounds a bit harsh to my ears, yet I know it can sound nice from music I've heard where I know it's used. Interesting amount of modulation sources for a vintage analog poly.. Looks awesome too
If you want, sometime this weekend, I can throw a shitty sound demo together and send it to you. If this is something you'd want, look at the modultions routings/destinations, and tell me what you want to hear the most.
shaft9000 wrote:ottomh, memorymoog and OB-8VS and OB-X
in monos that sound is endemic to moog and ARP 2/3-osc synths, although a maxiKorg or System100 can bring the girth as well
it's kind of a gray area, as a lot of what you're looking for can be achieved through judicious use of comp&EQ, but some of it never can. gain-staging here is crucial, too, so you would do well to try some outboard that you can hit hard while tracking for some VCA-like punch. DBX 160 or the like.... getting that elusive last ~5% right is the challenge of course, and sometimes it just isn't gonna happen without the right synth.
depending on the context, that authentic vibe is often a chore with ITB; sometimes nigh impossible, otherwise I'd say just go the ITB way and save your money!
the easy solution is to just buy a minimoog.
That sounds right to me. Thanks for the gear tips. How would a JX-8P do compared to what's already been mentioned? Sounds warm, yet a bit soft from utube demos I've heard. Can it do punchy/tight/dense? How about SH-5 or SH-7?
