Korg MS-20 Mini

commodorejohn · Post by **commodorejohn** » Tue May 13, 2014 5:46 am

Fun little trick I just found: plug one end of a patch cable into one of the frequency mod inputs and crank it up. Now, pinch the other end in between your fingers. I'm not sure how much this varies with the person, but for me at least it gives a great growly trumpet-type effect to the sound

ejlif · Post by **ejlif** » Tue May 13, 2014 4:28 pm

I got one a few weeks ago and at first I thought this thing is kind of limited but I'm finding all kinds of little sounds in this thing, it can make some killer bass too. It's a very fun and inspiring keyboard. I haven't even plugged in a patch cord yet even.

madmarkmagee · Post by **madmarkmagee** » Wed May 14, 2014 1:07 pm

ejlif wrote:I got one a few weeks ago and at first I thought this thing is kind of limited but I'm finding all kinds of little sounds in this thing, it can make some killer bass too. It's a very fun and inspiring keyboard. I haven't even plugged in a patch cord yet even.

You should really try that patch cord thing...

JayEm · Post by **JayEm** » Thu May 15, 2014 5:19 am

poor mans duophony is my fav patch so far

key out to sample/hold, key trig to sample/hold clock, sample hold out to osc2 pitch input(not the total freq inputs uptop)

adjust the rest to taste. get some droney synth bagpipes and sent it into a delay.

pflosi · Post by **pflosi** » Thu May 15, 2014 7:20 am

^ Yeah that patch is nice. Try it with the ring mod waveform

mute · Post by **mute** » Thu May 15, 2014 4:21 pm

mad science newcomers should also be aware of:

1. half inserting a patch will establish the patch but won't disable the internal routing, meaning more combinations.
2. get Y splitters or piggy-back cables so you can split and combine multiple in/out-puts

pflosi · Post by **pflosi** » Thu May 15, 2014 4:27 pm

Mixing ("combine multiple outputs") with Y-cables, stackcables or passive mults: BAD idea!

Splitting is fine.

commodorejohn · Post by **commodorejohn** » Thu May 15, 2014 4:56 pm

It's just too bad the half-insert trick is so tricky to pull off on the Mini...

mute · Post by **mute** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:06 pm

pflosi wrote:Mixing ("combine multiple outputs") with Y-cables, stackcables or passive mults: BAD idea!

Splitting is fine.

Been doing it for +/- 20 years now on all kinds of gear, esp. MS-20 and MS-20 mini, without ever causing an issue. So whats the problem other than thinking the combined volts would hurt something...which would require alot more effort than just some potential 10-20V spikes?

It's just too bad the half-insert trick is so tricky to pull off on the Mini...

it's not really..just insert all the way and then pinch them out. i find stereo 1/8" cables make it easier. but yeah... regardless, its way more natural with a 1/4" on a MS-20 than a tiny 1/8" on the mini

pflosi · Post by **pflosi** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:41 pm

mute wrote:
pflosi wrote:Mixing ("combine multiple outputs") with Y-cables, stackcables or passive mults: BAD idea!

Splitting is fine.
Been doing it for +/- 20 years now on all kinds of gear, esp. MS-20 and MS-20 mini, without ever causing an issue. So whats the problem other than thinking the combined volts would hurt something...which would require alot more effort than just some potential 10-20V spikes?

Spikes are not the problem. The problem is that you're shorting outputs together, which, depending on the output impedances (i.e. the design of the circuits), could destroy those outputs. Guess you were lucky in those last 20 years, I definitely wouldn't recommend to do this.

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:46 pm

pflosi wrote:
mute wrote:
pflosi wrote:Mixing ("combine multiple outputs") with Y-cables, stackcables or passive mults: BAD idea!

Splitting is fine.
Been doing it for +/- 20 years now on all kinds of gear, esp. MS-20 and MS-20 mini, without ever causing an issue. So whats the problem other than thinking the combined volts would hurt something...which would require alot more effort than just some potential 10-20V spikes?
Spikes are not the problem. The problem is that you're shorting outputs together, which, depending on the output impedances (i.e. the design of the circuits), could destroy those outputs. Guess you were lucky in those last 20 years, I definitely wouldn't recommend to do this.

Yep.

mute · Post by **mute** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:54 pm

Maybe I'm missing something here.. Shorting? As far as the cables are concerned, a ground is a ground... one ground connected to another is still the same single ground and aside there isn't a ground loop occurring. If your grounding was non-existent on the unit or poorly done I could see an issue, such as on some homebrew modular, etc.

I may be lucky, but tons of people do this with the ms-20 and elsewhere (on a related note, Arturia even has demo videos doing it themselves on their microbrute). I make no claims at understanding electronics as well as some of you, but I'd like to understand where the danger actually lies. I mean, c'mon..piggybacking is all over the place in the modular world as well.. surely if it was an issue we'd find alot of doom and gloom stories via google/forum searches/etc...?

http://www.analoguehaven.com/tiptopaudio/stackcable/

even..

pflosi · Post by **pflosi** » Sat May 17, 2014 1:43 am

mute wrote:surely if it was an issue we'd find alot of doom and gloom stories via google/forum searches/etc...?

http://www.analoguehaven.com/tiptopaudio/stackcable/

even..

There are a ton of doom and gloom stories. It's definitely bad practice (connecting outputs together that is).

Nowhere on that AH page does it mention mixing.

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Sat May 17, 2014 3:27 am

mute wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here.. Shorting? As far as the cables are concerned, a ground is a ground... one ground connected to another is still the same single ground and aside there isn't a ground loop occurring. If your grounding was non-existent on the unit or poorly done I could see an issue, such as on some homebrew modular, etc.

I may be lucky, but tons of people do this with the ms-20 and elsewhere (on a related note, Arturia even has demo videos doing it themselves on their microbrute). I make no claims at understanding electronics as well as some of you, but I'd like to understand where the danger actually lies. I mean, c'mon..piggybacking is all over the place in the modular world as well.. surely if it was an issue we'd find alot of doom and gloom stories via google/forum searches/etc...?

http://www.analoguehaven.com/tiptopaudio/stackcable/

even..

It's not about joining the grounds together, it's about joining together the outputs.

Using these typical values: Output impedance 500 Ohms, input impedance 10k Ohms, you can see that if you send one output to two inputs the current drawn from the output will double, but that's still within the capabilities of the output stage. If you join the output to another output (which is what you're doing if you try to use a passive mult to mix) then each output is trying to drive the other one with 20 times the current it's designed to handle. This is where things go bad. On top of that the differing output impedances of the modules you're trying to mix will mean that often you won't even get a 50:50 mix which is what you're aiming for. Just don't do it.

Piggybacking cables is fine as long as you're sending one output to many inputs, it's when you join together two outputs that it causes problems.

mute · Post by **mute** » Sat May 17, 2014 6:00 am

thanks for the explanation stab

Korg MS-20 Mini

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