Likelihood of Virtual Analogs To Truly Become Vintage Pieces

[redchapterjubilee]

I am wondering from those of you who know the electronics involved in hardware virtual synthesis whether or not old school VA's like the early Nords, Access, Waldorf, Alesis etc. will weather the test of time. I think of how it seemed that most people's Juno 106's started to die at about the same time and someone was able to clone the VCF/VCA chips and then someone was able to figure out to use acetone to revive the factory chips. Will there be ways to revive an Alesis Ion or Nord Lead I when parts start to fail? Is it likely people who are devoted to these machines will be able to rewrite the software or transplant DSP's? We are at, what, 16 or 17 years history on some of the VA's? Just curious, not wanting to start a flame war or "real analog is always better than virtual analog" etc. Just wondering if the components will last and, if not, how likely y'all think it is that some enterprising person or group of people will dedicate themselves to keeping these synths afloat.

[Z]

There still seems to be a demand for Roland JP-8000 / 8080 and Oberheim OB-12. They're not fetching silly money or more than they cost new, but those synths always sell.

[shaft9000]

1000% likely - as VINTAGE is not a scientific designation but a subjective one. The only 'requirement' is merely indicating age. it's abused so often as a marketing term that it will likely fall out of favor and be replaced by a more apt term that was not invented for indicating that "the wine was grown and bottled in the same ranch, on this year"....


as for maintenance, there may be issues with IP and proprietary DSP code and such, with any digital instrument. it will depend on 1) legacy support from the original manufacturer, or 2) enterprising hackers offering replacement DSPs.

seems like it would already be happening if it was going to?

[meatballfulton]

The sort of custom circuitry used in modern digitals will make them considerably more difficult (read: expensive) to replicate once mfr spares are exhausted.

The reason Juno 106 parts are available is only because of the rising prices of the instruments and the common failures. The previous solution was just to buy another Juno (didn't have to be 100% functional) and cannibalize it for parts.

Only the most popular and expensive instruments will have even a remote chance for "new" replacement parts becoming available in the future.

[plikestechno]

Waldorf Q for sure. It and the Q+ go for crazy prices sometimes and I'm sure they'll go for more as time progresses.

I think there are too many Viruses, MS2000s, Ions, Microns etc. for them to reach esteemed status.

[Reginator]

I have a Roland JP-8080 and I love this synth. What I like about it is it's "one knob per function" and I can immediately coax great sounds out of it. I've had it around 15 years and it's still my most used synth. I've stopped using the internal effects in favor of an old rackmount guitar effects processor which sounds quite nice.

If a new JP-8080 DSP comes on the market I'd like to see: Upgraded filters, Additional LFO, A Freely routable Envelope, and Oscillator Drift.

[calaverasgrande]

the tech involved in early 80's MI gear pretty much lends itself to modding/maintenance. The tech for most of the VA synths does not. The difference is that on a Korg Poly61 or a Roland Juno106 you have chips, but everything else is a big ole resistor/capacitor/transistor. The kind you can still pick up at Radio Shack. The kind that it is easy to solder/de-solder. Most VA synths of recent vintage are SMT. The chips they use are pretty proprietary. The possibility of modding or doing coffee table maintenance are pretty slim. But I think most of those VA machines will be more reliable than their pure bred cousins.

As far as whether they will achieve vintage status?
All that takes is a widely read interview with one producer/artist.

[garranimal]

There still seems to be a demand for Roland JP-8000 / 8080 and Oberheim OB-12. They're not fetching silly money or more than they cost new, but those synths always sell.

These two synths came to mind immediately. Add the Novation supernovas/bass-station and MS-2000. It's interesting the Prophecy started it all but its price seems to be holding modestly. They will all be plagued sooner or later by failing/corroded key contacts, switches, displays, LEDs going out. SH-201 anyone?...seems like they've gone up a little. The rompler groovebox MC-505s are most plagued by dying LCDs already. That and the MC-303s are suffering from broken shaft pots or having them snapped off the PCB. And lets not forget any of the audio and/or power jacks that can become dislodged from their pcbs like on the MS-2000. All of which still use little batteries to store patches.

[Andy_X69]

Any synth with a specific, recognizeable, distinct sound quality will probably become a beloved piece of kit.

I can think of several.

Access Virus. Yes, its common and somewhat overpriced when new but its a phenomenal synthesizer.

Alesis Ion. The best vintage-analog replicator of all the VAs I've ever heard.

Waldorf synths generally have a cult following so the Q series (and Microwaves) will always be popular. And I can see the appeal of the Waldorf character... Waldorf's digital filters are IMO very good-sounding... the only VAs which are better are the Virus and Ion IMO.

I have a Nord Rack 3 but I'm not a huge fan of the Nord series. However, many people are and the Nords have some great qualities (the NL3's FM implementation and osc sync capabilities for one... and also, the Nords in general take VERY nicely to guitar effects, thus making them very good synth choices for rock bands).

Really, any synth (or series of synths) with a distinct and memorable sound character will have a place in the future. VA's aren't worthless or anything.

Nor are analogs inherently more memorable. There are plenty of analogs which were low quality or didn't sound good etc... we just forget about them. We all remember Minimoogs and Jupiter 8's but we forget the less impressive analogs.

As I see it, if a synth or series thereof has a unique identity, it will have some staying power, no matter how the sound is generated.

[ppg_wavecomputer]

"Vintage" they all will become -- but "sought-after" will be a completely different story altogether.

These days, the term "vintage" not only implies "old" or "from better days of yore" but "desirable" as well. Why is something desirable? Because it sets you apart from your neighbour. Everybody can buy a Blofeld, only a few will be able to use a real PPG. Desirability is also rooted in scarcity. How many NordLead 1s are around, and how many working Memory Moogs? That´s why a NordLead will never become "desirable", and that´s why a Memory Moog is just that, i. e. worth having. A NL is a mass-produced instrument which is easy to replace, the MM is a beast that never worked quite as well as it should have, and the number of working units is still decreasing...

So, in answer to your original question, yes, they will become "vintage" at some stage but no, they will never be as desirable as any synthesiser that is now 20+ years old (hey, even Poly61s are changing hands at mad money these days... how desparate do you have to be?).

Stephen

[redchapterjubilee]

The reason I ask is that for me I'm starting to look at buying another Ion. The first one I owned had issues with the outputs and I had no techs anywhere near me at that point. I do now, and I think I'm okay with investing in another one. But I got to thinking how I should be able to keep my 106 going in perpetuity, but that Ion might be a different story since it is much more "compuphonic" than the 106 or any other classic analog poly. Replacing a chip or perhaps rewriting modest software code is different than replacing DSP's and such. I don't care so much whether the Nord Lead will be seen as classic as Prophet 5 or such. What I do wonder about is whether in ten years or 20 or more those boards will become completely useless due to absence of parts and people who can work on them.

[Hybrid88]

Oh I think they will become sought after, well relatively of course, I mean here in Aus they arguably are already. No question that "vintage" status is only a matter of time/perspective.

Before people who really wanted the big poly's (Jupiter's Obie's, Prophet 5's etc), but couldn't afford them went for Juno's and JX's etc, now even those underdogs are quite expensive, the VA's are getting a look in.

Pretty sure they won't hold up so well maintenance-wise though, old techs will be pissed when they have to regularly do SMT.

[meatballfulton]

What I do wonder about is whether in ten years or 20 or more those boards will become completely useless due to absence of parts and people who can work on them.

The two issues are different. Parts is one thing, repairmen another.

As far back as two decades ago full servicing of electronics was giving way to board swaps. I had a failure in my SQ80 in the early 90s and all the authorized repair guy could do was swap motherboards, Ensoniq would not provide service info for debug and replacement to the component level. If schematics and detailed service manuals don't exist, maintenance is nearly impossible even when parts are available.

With SMT, repair is definitely possible but repairmen need access to proper tools. The soldering irons you need are different and you need some sort of magnifier/microscope as well.

[Zamise]

Yamaha AN gets no love? I've an 1x and 200. The trouble I went through to get them shouldn't have been but they are vintage classics. I didn't like the sound of the 8080 I had but they are pretty. Agree about the 505s, not a va but one of the first of its kind with as a knobby grovebox/seq. I miss that thing on occasion, too bad LCDs go out and eventually die. Cost more to repair it then to buy another, but if fixed right it should last instead of getting another that is living on borrowed time. My RS7000 is vintage too, got a second one and plan on buying more even though nothing has went out on my first I did have to replace some parts on the second to keep it fully functional, previous owner abused, I can't imagine being without one.

[redchapterjubilee]

The two issues are different. Parts is one thing, repairmen another.

With SMT, repair is definitely possible but repairmen need access to proper tools. The soldering irons you need are different and you need some sort of magnifier/microscope as well.

That is my question. Obviously with vintage synthesizers that we can all agree are keepers (Moogs, Oberheims, Prophets, etc.) people have stepped into the void to repair them. Not just old guys who fixed them 30 years ago but young guys too. Because the passion is there and it's obviously agreed upon that a broken Minimoog isn't just junk for the scrap heap but is worth it to someone to have it fixed, and there are someones who can do it. Will there be enough someones to fix a broken virtual analog to continue to make it a viable instrument for longer than, say, a 10 year life span?