What is midi output position used for?

[Dennis]

I use midi position on my microkorg to transmit the arpeggiator, but what else is it used for.

My other synth could also be set to post midi position, and it doesn't even have an arpeggiator.
Is it to transmit pitch bend controlled by an lfo for example?

Thanks
-Dennis

[fh991586]

Well, it transmits the keys you're playing, first of all!

[Dennis]

Well, it transmits the keys you're playing, first of all!

Sorry i was a bit unclear,

Whats does post midi do compared to pre midi position.

[Hybrid88]

[Zamise]

Digital LFO's don't work like that either, they are usually internal to the synth and don't transmit data points of a curve to external gear via midi. It will more likely be transmitting a setting/knob position of the LFO, but even then I don't think LFO settings are a standardized midi message. I think it can be possible on some synths and gear that the LFO settings can be assigned to certain CC (control change) or system exclusive (sysex hex code) messages which can be sent over midi between synths. They' could be different on different gear meaning turning an LFO knob on one while hooked to another might actually control panning or something else instead of speed/rate and depth, or it also might actually control the LFO, however you could also have totally different wave type/shape on the other synth which would make it sound different anyway.

I assume there is gear that probably can transmit a LFO curve translated to pitch/flilter/amp etc. messages over midi, but that would be unusual and excessively wasteful use of limited midi bandwidth, meaning you'd pretty quickly get the dreaded midi lag. Part of the concept of why LFOs work the way do and using them is so that you can have those settings like pitch automated without as much of a load on the synth and other resources.

Sometimes the midi outs can be switched to thru and have echo back and various other settings for transmitting clock and other parms. I'm taking a guess here, I'm thinking "midi position" on your synths probably refers to the channel it is sending over or receiving on, like 1-16 or All or None, maybe?

[Zamise]

Since you are talking about the arpeggiator perhaps post and pre means it'll receive a single note midi in and do an arp on it or send the single note arp out as multiple arped notes from a single note being played then?

[Dennis]

Digital LFO's don't work like that either, they are usually internal to the synth and don't transmit data points of a curve to external gear via midi. It will more likely be transmitting a setting/knob position of the LFO, but even then I don't think LFO settings are a standardized midi message. I think it can be possible on some synths and gear that the LFO settings can be assigned to certain CC (control change) or system exclusive (sysex hex code) messages which can be sent over midi between synths. They' could be different on different gear meaning turning an LFO knob on one while hooked to another might actually control panning or something else instead of speed/rate and depth, or it also might actually control the LFO, however you could also have totally different wave type/shape on the other synth which would make it sound different anyway.

I assume there is gear that probably can transmit a LFO curve translated to pitch/flilter/amp etc. messages over midi, but that would be unusual and excessively wasteful use of limited midi bandwidth, meaning you'd pretty quickly get the dreaded midi lag. Part of the concept of why LFOs work the way do and using them is so that you can have those settings like pitch automated without as much of a load on the synth and other resources.

Sometimes the midi outs can be switched to thru and have echo back and various other settings for transmitting clock and other parms. I'm taking a guess here, I'm thinking "midi position" on your synths probably refers to the channel it is sending over or receiving on, like 1-16 or All or None, maybe?

Right, didn't think it would work like that either.

I'll take another shot at explaining myself:

For example in the microkorg is very useful.

For example if I turn on the arp, and hold down C major.....
With preMIDI, the MIDI output will be that C major chord, even though the microkorg is arpeggiating it.
With postMidi, the MIDI output won't be the C major chord, it will be the actual notes that the arpeggiator generates.

But say the ps60, it doesn't have an arpeggiator... so what would be the purpose of having postMIDI.


Sorry for confusing the c**p out of you guys
Thanks
-Dennis

[Zamise]

OK thought that might be it then, it sounds to me like pre and post is like I said in my last message. That is so when you play the chord or a single note you have the option to send the arped notes out via midi or just chord or notes you are playing as you play and not the arpped version. Right?

It really sucks to not have both ways, you don't think about it until you have a synth that only does one or the other than you are like why the eF didn't they have it go the other way??? I've synths that do both and are limited to one or the other way, a setting so you can switch it on or off for both is always best, it is a good thing. I've never heard it called pre or post though, but that would still make sense, I'm not even sure what it is technically called, or what it is called on my gear, its like usually transmit arp on or off I think

Not sure why a synth without arp would have it though, maybe it is doing some other kind of midi filtering. Like post means it is not sending thru from a third synth or something instead of arping notes in or out, or some certain other midi parms. Maybe it is stopping from receiving a PC event, those can suck really bad, every time you change a voice/patch on one it'll change it to the same bank on the other, normally you don't want that most of the time but can be useful, just throwing that out as a possibility idk.

[Low Life]

On my Korg R3 it's possible to set a custom velocity curve, and in addition to the arpeggiator behaviour described this setting also controls whether the custom velocity curve is applied to the MIDI output.

For example if I have the setting as "Post-KBD", the arpeggiator doesn't have any effect and the velocity sent is whatever my playing velocity was. If i have it as "Pre-trig", arpeggiator is applied and the velocity is modified according to the custom setting, for example to always be at full value.

[meatballfulton]

The only synths I have owned using this concept were Korgs. Read the manual, it explains it.

The synth engine itself can be controlled from MIDI or from the keyboard. When you throw an arpeggiator into the chain, should it respond to only the keys, only MIDI or both? Going the other direction should the MIDI output be only the keys you are playing or the output of the arpeggiator?

Korg lets you choose the behavior for yourself, lots of other synths don't.