I miss midi thru

zmd · Post by **zmd** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:11 am

Why does so much cool new stuff only have midi in? Or maybe in and out...but never thru!!!

My collection of quad boxes is getting awful:(

I wonder why midi outs aren't switchable

Post by **Zamise** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:40 am

I may be mistaken but out can often be set to thru, look for an echo back, or midi thru option in your synth's midi setup settings.

karmag · Post by **karmag** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:24 am

Good question.

I guess it's less common to have a bunch of separate hardware synths all plugged in nowadays, so there's less of a demand for having good MIDI I/O.

The physical hardware side of things like connectors and knobs can cost a surprising amount of money too, there's likely some pressure from the bean counters involved in those decisions.

griffin avid · Post by **griffin avid** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:45 am

Affordable MIDI boxes that split, reroute and double-X the data.
Everything is DAW and audio interface-based now.

And I read (yes, I am referencing something I read and have had little experience actually doing) that MIDI becomes unreliable after several links in the chain. Could be another reason for the switch, in general.

Post by **meatballfulton** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:01 pm

Although I did have a MIDI patchbay at one point, my rigs have usually been small so I've always made use of THRU. Lack of OUT is even more annoying...gear with memories and no way to back it up? Epic fail...

I still have a tiny unit that lets me switch between two INs to three OUTs, think I paid $15 for it 25 years ago. It's the white cylinder behind the Evolver. Wish stuff like that still existed.

As others noted, the trend has been away from using outboard MIDI for years.

fh991586 · Post by **fh991586** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:44 pm

I've always prefered midi patchbays to "thru", because you need to power up the first synths in the chain for the signal to go through, even if you don't use those synths [although it's not a big problem when you only have 2 or 3 synths chained like that]. Patchbays bypass the unused synths: for this, I will always vouch for the Roland A-880!

But it seems that the powers that be are pushing for everyone to stop using midi and go for USB... :/

Post by **meatballfulton** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:31 pm

fh991586 wrote:seems that the powers that be are pushing for everyone to stop using midi and go for USB... :/

For purposes of MIDI sequencing from a computer, USB interfacing is great. Each device has it's own MIDI port so there's fewer congestion issues and running out of channels is a thing of the past. Some even support a second MIDI port using their MIDI jacks for hooking up non-USB gear. Bidirectional communications for patch editing, backups, etc. is simplified and there's less cabling involved. No need for patch bays, mergers, thru boxes, etc.

I love it.

calaverasgrande · Post by **calaverasgrande** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:25 pm

it is pretty annoying that a number of new synths only supply the user with midi in or midi over USB.
It parallels a lot of the software developers in the computer world that behave as if their application is the only thing that will be running on an end users machine.
Do these people not realize that these components exist as part of a system?

ps yeah, I'm a nerd

the synthman · Post by **the synthman** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:45 am

How do the manufacturers know that their latest synth is going to be the ONLY thing that the owner will use & ONLY be used with a computer?. People; (including me), still use hardware sequancers so midi thru is a great help when i need to send sequncer info to my 4 synths. Manufacturer need to put midi thru (be it via a dedicated socket or soft thru) back on their equipment as they cannot know in what type of setup their equipment will be used, be that a hardware or software envoiment. Just my point of view you understand.

Post by **meatballfulton** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:37 pm

the synthman wrote:How do the manufacturers know that their latest synth is going to be the ONLY thing that the owner will use & ONLY be used with a computer?

Any serious mfr does market research and chooses the feature set based on that.

Even as MIDI connectors disappear CV/gate interfacing has come back from the dead. Might as well ask why so many new synths have only 25 keys...

Users still needing MIDI connectors are apparently in the minority. If the tabletop trend continues that might change.

Jabberwalky · Post by **Jabberwalky** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:59 pm

I may be using an older PC build, but USB has been quite flaky at best. I hope it improves to the extent that MIDI isn't needed. BUT:

-USB has a lot of ground hum issues that still need sorted, and I shouldn't need another external box to defeat this..
-Most of my USB synths are only recognized by Ableton after they are turned on. This is pretty annoying when you decide to use that synth halfway into a session. It won't even work unless Ableton is restarted. This was supposedly fixed in 9, but my Ms20 mini still does it.
-The Blofeld in particular drops notes over USB all the time. Maybe someone else can vouch for this.

There are some kinks to work out on the software and hardware side.

Post by **meatballfulton** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:21 pm

Jabberwalky wrote:Most of my USB synths are only recognized by Ableton after they are turned on.

I hope you meant all not most. How can you recognize a device that isn't present?

When I was using a Windows XP machine, I found that USB MIDI devices that were powered on after launching any MIDI program were not recognized. If the MIDI device was powered off while the computer was in sleep sometimes I had to reboot the computer as well. Total PITA. As long as the computer was always turned on last, I never had USB MIDI issues.

Now I'm using an iMac, but I religiously turn on everything related to audio or MIDI that connects via USB or FW before I launch Live. Live clears audio preferences for devices it can't locate on launch.

The Blofeld in particular drops notes over USB all the time.

Considering how buggy Blofeld MIDI is in general that wouldn't surprise me

As always, as soon as computers get in the mix some people will have troubles and others will always have smooth sailing. My experience with MIDI over USB and FW has been wonderful...Motif ES, Motif XF, Radias, Virus Snow, M-Audio UNO, Focusrite Saffire 40, M-Audio Keystudio 49i, APC40, Nocturn, Launchpad all have worked fine.

Jabberwalky · Post by **Jabberwalky** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:55 pm

meatballfulton wrote:
Jabberwalky wrote:Most of my USB synths are only recognized by Ableton after they are turned on.
I hope you meant all not most. How can you recognize a device that isn't present?

Yes, basically. Midi wins here. You turn on the synth, and you send it notes. Nothing needs to be recognized by software.

n3wt15 · Post by **n3wt15** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:02 pm

yeah lack of midi thrus on things used to really piss me off, but now sense I got into modular stuff, MIDI in general pisses me off.

I have a terrible time trying to configure the midi for my live setup, theres no way to have everything synced and play together nicely the way i want it too...I wish all my boxes just had CV control now

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