Can someone please explain RING MODULATION?

[Dennis]

What is Ring Modulation and how do I use it?

I know it might be kinda hard to explain in a paragraph but I'll appreciate any help.

I'm kinda beginning to understand it, but still pretty confused, it's giving me headaches.


Thanks Guys
-Dennis

[Stab Frenzy]

This link explains it pretty well: http://bit.ly/1l46BUr

[Bitexion]

A slightly less dickish response, this video explains it pretty well with audio example.
What you hear basically is the sum of the two signals and the subtraction of the two signals at once. The sidebands.
That is why it sounds very dissonant when you sweep one of the frequencies. The further apart the two get, the more dissonant it sounds. When the two are very close in frequency you get a tremolo effect. Vangelis used this tremolo alot on the CS-80.

[Stab Frenzy]

That video was the second thing that came up from my link.

But seriously, it's not being a d**k to point out that the question somebody asked can be answered by typing that question into google rather than typing it into a new thread on a forum. It's a public service, it teaches the OP to find things out themselves and it stops the forum from filling up with pointless threads.

[pflosi]

Ring mod can be implemented in different ways. Amplitude modulation, XOR (MS20), etc.

[Solderman]

In regards to amplitude modulation as a substitute, the drawback is that you can hear the modulator signal in the output, assuming it is in audio range, of course.

[Algorithm]

What does it take to add a ringmod in a DIY/mod situation? I remember seeing all sorts of ringmods on various cheap keyboards. I never understood the process of adding a ring mod though. What do you need besides the ringmod circuit?

[Dennis]

Yes I did Google it, yes I read the articles, that was sort of implied with "I'm kinda beginning to understand it, but still pretty confused." So thanks to the people who tried to make me feel stupid, definitely brightens my day.

It takes me some time to understand this stuff, so I came to the forum to get a straight answer.

---

Alright so I watched that video again.
So Ring Modulation uses one wave to modulate the frequency of the other?

So if I had 2 oscillators at different frequencies, and used Ring Modulation, it would use that first oscillator as the carrier for the second, multiplying the first frequency by the second as well as subtracting and adding the two?

I used Massive to give it a go, I used the Modulation OSC on a Sawtooth wave, now I understand the need for the pitch parameter on the modulation OSC, pretty happy.

Also, would I always be bound to using a Sine wave as a modulator signal, or is that just Massive?


I also heard of people using ring modulation with vocals, anyone have any idea how that works?


Thanks to the people who didn't come here to insult me
-Dennis

[Ashe37]

Depends on the synth. On a CS-80, the ring mod has its own sine wave oscillator as the modulation signal. *some* synths are bound to using just a sine wave as the modulation signal, others use whatever the waveform is set for (especially on VSTs, i guess the math gets pretty complex when the modulating signal has more than one harmonic).

[commodorejohn]

So Ring Modulation uses one wave to modulate the frequency of the other?

Nope. It's closely related to amplitude modulation, which (as you may have guessed) uses one wave to modulate the amplitude of the other. The only difference between them is that with ring-mod you don't hear the modulator in the output, while with AM you do.

So if I had 2 oscillators at different frequencies, and used Ring Modulation, it would use that first oscillator as the carrier for the second, multiplying the first frequency by the second as well as subtracting and adding the two?

No, there's no multiplication involved. It simply produces frequencies equal to the sum and difference of the frequencies. By itself, with only two frequencies (i.e. plain sine waves,) that's not terribly interesting, but the important part is that it does that for all of the harmonics in the two waveforms - and since common synth waveforms like saw and square are made up of a whole series of sine waves at harmonic frequencies, ring-mod can produce quite complex series of harmonics. And since the exact series produced depends on the harmonic content of both oscillators and their relative tuning, there's a huge variety of things it can do.

[Stab Frenzy]

Alright so I watched that video again.
So Ring Modulation uses one wave to modulate the frequency of the other?

No not the frequency, the amplitude. Modulating the frequency is FM, which is similar in a way (gives you inharmonic results) but not ring modulation.

So if I had 2 oscillators at different frequencies, and used Ring Modulation, it would use that first oscillator as the carrier for the second, multiplying the first frequency by the second as well as subtracting and adding the two?

No, not multiplying, just adding and subtracting. Keep in mind that that example is a very simplified example which only considers sine waves (which contain a single frequency). If you use more complex waves like square, saw etc you introduce many more frequencies which make the results much more complex.

I used Massive to give it a go, I used the Modulation OSC on a Sawtooth wave, now I understand the need for the pitch parameter on the modulation OSC, pretty happy.

Also, would I always be bound to using a Sine wave as a modulator signal, or is that just Massive?

I don't use Massive so can't answer that question. By no means is a sine wave the only option as a modulator in general, although on some synths sine may be the only option.

I also heard of people using ring modulation with vocals, anyone have any idea how that works?

Same as any other signal. The results sound like the daleks voices in Dr Who.

[Dennis]

Very awesome answers, thanks for clearing this up for me.

Sorry for replying so late.

[Ashe37]

I also heard of people using ring modulation with vocals, anyone have any idea how that works?

Same as any other signal. The results sound like the daleks voices in Dr Who.

To the point where the guy that does the Dalek voice comes on stage and to rehearsals with a Moogerfooger ring mod.