Yamaha Reface

[Reginator]

I'm trying to grasp what exactly negative feedback sounds like. ???

Demo and explanation here:
http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=18556

Neat demo, makes me wanna knock the dust off of FM8 to see if I can actually program the dang thing.

[gcoudert]

I quite fancy the Reface CP. i might start saving up for one but I'd play it over MIDI.

[celebutante]

I'm really late to this, and surely echoing the sentiments of many, but...

The DX one in theory could be interesting, but a quick scan of ebay shows that you can buy SY77''s for around $400 all day long (or many other interesting FM variants on the cheap). Unless creating music on the subway is a big priority (a market segment that I'm pretty sure only exists in manufacturer marketing departments' imaginations, but man, they sure love it), or you live someplace where roughly 24" of width makes a huge difference, then the Reface DX at $500 is total fail.

(BTW, the "living in a small place" marketing excuse for small keyboards is laughable. If you live a in a sub 500 sq ft place, your money would probably be better spent on a better living situation!)

The CS one... again, as long as MS-20 minis and Arturia MiniBrutes exist, this is pointless - MS-20 is far more powerful, and MiniBrute is on par or better at a far lower price.

The organ and piano ones take traditionally "two-handed" instruments and saddle them with useless toy-size keys and range.

They're all cute and nifty looking. A pet sloth is super cute too, but that does not make it a good house pet.

Personally, I consider ALL mini keyboards toys that don't belong in my pro studio (unless they're the Casios I had when I was 11). Under any circumstance, I'd ALWAYS pay $100 more for a real keyboard, and I don't want to have to MIDI
a real keyboard to something with tiny keys or inadequate range. THAT is a waste of space, and (partially) defeats the immediacy of buying an instrument like the Reface in the first place. A virtual analog/digital hardware instrument (i.e., not really analog) better get the UI (i.e. keyboard and controls) really right in order to justify paying five times the price of a plug-in instrument. Otherwise, you may as well just get a VI at a fraction of the price. The "handy for live" argument doesn't apply to me, because my live rig is MainStage, so I can easily add any VI, and play it from my 76-key controller with full-size keys. (BTW, the total cost of my live rig with used Fantom controller, used MB Pro, and $30 MainStage was about $650. Ouch again...)

HOWEVER bold bold bold caps times a million!!!!....

ReFace is not being marketed to an old curmudge with a bunch of old-school analog synths (And a new-school modular. And a seven-foot grand. And a giant hideous Cordovox/Moog organ synth... ) They're marketed to the same 18-34 year-olds who bought a gajillion microKorgs. They'll all play one or two-finger melodies at home or in a likely horrid indie-rock band that I won't understand (because I'll be able to name six bands I thought did this better in '87, or worse, the members will dress like Amish and play the limp alt-whatever with a banjo that will make me wonder what the h**l happened to Suicide, Ministry, Nitzer Ebb or something else with any balls). They also don't know or care what PWM is, remember what a CP-70 is, or give a c**p about the difference between a divide-down transistor organ vs. tone wheel., etc.

And forgetting my opinions of what passes for modern alternative rock, it IS far easier to sell something dinky for $500 than it is to sell something awesome for $1500, and synth companies have clearly learned this in the last few years.

Hey Yamaha... keep making c**p I don't care about. Anyone got a CS-15 to sell me for cheap?

[salwa]

They're marketed to the same 18-34 year-olds who bought a gajillion microKorgs. They'll all play one or two-finger melodies at home or in a likely horrid indie-rock band that I won't understand (because I'll be able to name six bands I thought did this better in '87, or worse, the members will dress like Amish and play the limp alt-whatever with a banjo that will make me wonder what the h**l happened to Suicide, Ministry, Nitzer Ebb or something else with any balls). They also don't know or care what PWM is, remember what a CP-70 is, or give a c**p about the difference between a divide-down transistor organ vs. tone wheel., etc.

Seeing this demo, I'm not sure you're right about demographic

One of them is Yamaha's marketing manager of music production, pro audio & combo division. Well...

[commodorejohn]

Uh-oh, people are expressing strong opinions about modern music, that means we're about due for a mod to stomp in and tell everyone to stop being so backwards and elitist...

[Stab Frenzy]

They're marketed to the same 18-34 year-olds who bought a gajillion microKorgs. They'll all play one or two-finger melodies at home or in a likely horrid indie-rock band that I won't understand (because I'll be able to name six bands I thought did this better in '87, or worse, the members will dress like Amish and play the limp alt-whatever with a banjo that will make me wonder what the h**l happened to Suicide, Ministry, Nitzer Ebb or something else with any balls). They also don't know or care what PWM is, remember what a CP-70 is, or give a c**p about the difference between a divide-down transistor organ vs. tone wheel., etc.

Seeing this demo, I'm not sure you're right about demographic

One of them is Yamaha's marketing manager of music production, pro audio & combo division. Well...

A) That was a demo video, not marketing material.
B) Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, oh my god that was hilarious. I'm really embarrassed for Yamaha now.

[celebutante]

Uh-oh, people are expressing strong opinions about modern music, that means we're about due for a mod to stomp in and tell everyone to stop being so backwards and elitist...

I'm not trying to make anyone dislike modern music. I kinda hope it's super great and I'm too old to get it. But I'm pretty sure that ain't the case. To paraphrase my pal SynthDan...

"When I was young, I always said I'd like modern music when I got older... but no one told me it was going to be so bad."

Sorry for the hijack... more about them neato Refaces! (which I hope someone likes too)

[salwa]

A) That was a demo video, not marketing material.

I know, but they are Yamaha emploees, so it's semi-marketing material. Anyway it remindes me some of the Music Beamz promo videos.

[madtheory]

They'll all play one or two-finger melodies at home or in a likely horrid indie-rock band that I won't understand (because I'll be able to name six bands I thought did this better in '87, or worse, the members will dress like Amish and play the limp alt-whatever with a banjo that will make me wonder what the h**l happened to Suicide, Ministry, Nitzer Ebb or something else with any balls).

[meatballfulton]

Of course there is always the Gearslutz Rule

Always disparage any new product as much as possible in the period between the product announcement and actual availability in stores.

[salwa]

Of course there is always the Gearslutz Rule

Always disparage any new product as much as possible in the period between the product announcement and actual availability in stores.

Eh, I've seen much more negativity than this thread presents. After all - this is very civil forum.
Personally, I find Reface interesting, if a little odd, mainly because price to features ratio and some strange choices (like web or app based presets). But the sound is decent.

[celebutante]

Of course there is always the Gearslutz Rule

Always disparage any new product as much as possible in the period between the product announcement and actual availability in stores.

Technically I'm being that guy, but unless the keyboards magically grow (and add an octave or two), my main gripe with the Refaces isn't going to change when they're actually released.

I'm gonna disparage anything with a toy keyboard; they're stupid. Guitar companies don't release classic guitar models at shrunken scale sizes to save a buck, why do this with synths? (before anyone flames me, I know there are some small/short-scale guitar models available, but they're typically the cheapest of the cheap and intended for beginners and children).

I'm not trying to be a troll; I'm annoyed is that "make a potentially really interesting/affordable instrument and ruin it with a useless keyboard" has become a trend.

[Jabberwalky]

If the Blofeld had mini-keys, people would still eat it up. It's just that the mini-keys and limited engine are a cheap combo.

Minikeys didn't hurt the Cz101. Some people can rip it up on those synths.

[yorgatron]

At first glance I thought Yamaha might be targeting my demographic, namely people who've owned their products in the past (SK-30, CP-35, YC-20) and were hoping for slightly more portable versions.

37 mini keys kills that thought.

Yes, i could use a separate MIDI board, but why? Why not a 61-key controller that would take 2, 3, or all 4 modules with assignable key splits and/or layering?

I doubt younger players will be clamoring for these either, all these sounds are available elsewhere, for much less.

[meatballfulton]

Yamaha might be targeting people who've owned their products in the past (SK-30, CP-35, YC-20)

Anyone who bought those boards when they were new would be in their 50s or 60s