Envelopes: no sustain but long release ?

[KBD_TRACKER]

Looking at this bass set up from http://www.attackmagazine.com/technique ... ne-styles/



The text says "The sound should not end too abruptly, so make sure the amplitude envelope’s release time is raised slightly."

But clearly enough in this picture sustain is set to zero so what is the use of keeping a long release (or for that matter ANY release) when sustain=0 ? At the end of sustain the sound as died off anyway so release time should be irrelevant.

Is this a typo and it is the word "decay" which should have been used instead of "release" ?
Am I missing something ?

[pflosi]

There will be no release if you complete the decay phase. But if you let the key go before the decay has ended, it'll go into release.

[KBD_TRACKER]

There will be no release if you complete the decay phase. But if you let the key go before the decay has ended, it'll go into release.

Interesting. Thanks. But still the envelope setting in the article remains a bit confusing to to me:
for example with this picture below I see 2 situations:



--- If I gate time< 450 ms , no matter at what level S is set, then the envelope bypasses sustain and goes directly to release. Then S does not need to be 0, in fact S level is irrelevant. (picture of the article seems to specify S=0 for some reason)

---If I gate time> 450 ms then I'll get A+ D + S + R, but if S=0 I'll get no sound after end of decay and release setting is irrelevant. (unlike quote of the article)

[Jabberwalky]

Yeah, as Pflosi said, this will happen with older synths in general. It's sort of an extra way of expression, when things like velocity didn't exist.

In the other pic, "If I gate time< 450 ms" - you're right, the Sustain should have no bearing on anything.

On the Attack pic, their envelope amount isn't all the way up, and the cutoff is up slightly. So they're probably still hearing sound when the Sustain is all the way down. Also that picture is probably just some dumb screen grab, perhaps from the wrong moment in time. I'm not a big fan of Attack, and their writing usually.

[meatballfulton]

In general if the sound is not going to sustain, I set decay and release to be the same. That way I don't have to be too particular about when I let go of the key.

With some EGs, like the MiniMoog, this is the default behavior...either R=0 or R=D.

[nathanscribe]

Indeed. It's a simple way to get a sound to fade at the same rate no matter what the gate duration. When the gate is short, release does the fade-out. When the gate is long, decay does the job. Sounds the same if D & R are set the same.

Setting such an envelope and having release longer than decay is an interesting way to vary the note's fade-out by tinkering with the gate time.

[Baus]

In the first example when you:

Press the key and hold it, the tone will be short

Press the key and let go, the tone will be long

(it's all been said above too...but just chipping in )

Seems like they were not specific about the way of playing the tone/note.


Robin.

[KBD_TRACKER]

When the gate is long, decay does the job.

I gather you mean this when S=0 ?

[abruzzi]

A good example is a piano sound. Set the decay really long. Sustain to zero. So the sound can't play forever, it will eventually decay to zero. Then a fairly steep release, since the sound cuts off quickly (but not instantly) when you remove your finger from the key.

[Stab Frenzy]

In the first example when you:

Press the key and hold it, the tone will be short

Press the key and let go, the tone will be long

I used to utilise this trick when I had a CS-15, set the two envelopes so that one had a short decay, no sustain and a long release and the other the opposite, and then set the filters and oscs differently so that you had two different sounds out of the same patch depending on the playing style. It was a very cool and expressive way to play.

[Baus]

Exactly Stab Frenzy.

Nice one!

[cornutt]

I used to like the ADSDR envelopes on the DX7. The second "D" was a decay that was applied to the sustain phase. If you turned it all the way up, the sustain behaved in the conventional manner. But if you turned it down, it put a slope on the sustain such that it would fade out as you held the key. This was intended to provide a more realistic piano simulation, but you could invert it: put a steep slope on the sustain, and a slow slope on the release. The note would fade quickly as you held it, but then when you released it, it would fade slowly from that point.

[nathanscribe]

When the gate is long, decay does the job.

I gather you mean this when S=0 ?

Yes, I was referring to the envelope settings in the first illustration: A=0, S=0, decay and release about equal.

I use a version of this technique with arpeggios and sequences on analoue gear, varying the decay time to allow short triggers to push sounds into long releases or not, riding the control throughout. Works well with inverted filter envelope modulation too.

[Zamise]

Just working with similar settings on my RS, trick seems to be to have those settings on Amp and in concert with other setting on the ADSR for filter and pitch holy-freaking cow a new world of expression based on length the note is being held/gates. This great because minikeys are not velocity sensitive... just put the voice in mono and aweeeeesooooomayonase. Thanks for the tip.