If music making is like film making

[KBD_TRACKER]

then the DJ is like a projectionist ... so I heard recently.

Not to renew an ancient discussion on whether DJs are (or not) musicians/artists, I found this video that would tend to prove that DJs can be somewhat more than mere projectionists ...

In fact my main question is do you think what clarke is doing here is some form of music making ?

[pinksoir]

I wrote my thesis about this very topic. DJs are performers, but depending on what tools they use they can be seen as real time composers too. When it was just mixing one song into the other what could be done was severely limited. But now with stuff like looping, etc. it's possible for a DJ to deconstruct and reconstruct stuff on the fly. It really depends on what you consider to be an instrument as to whether you consider a DJ a composer or not. But when you analyse and break down to its essentials what an instrument *actually is*, it becomes a lot easier to justify calling a DJ a performer/composer/artist.

I'm not a DJ by the way.

[megamanx]

my 2 cents here maybe, they are not the directors or actors, they are editors...

[commodorejohn]

That is to performing as Jesse Collins's Tricky Cad is to drawing.

[ppg_wavecomputer]

then the DJ is like a projectionist ... so I heard recently. [...]

This is a nice analogy.

Although I tend to say DJs are not projectionists, they are ushers in your local cinema. Or the ones who would sell you popcorn and a Coke.

[...]In fact my main question is do you think what clarke is doing here is some form of music making ? [...]

This is as much music-making as warming up some convenience food in a microwave oven is cooking.

Stephen

[Soul_Processor]

a DJ is not a musician, but DJing is certainly a creative process, and skills are needed. being a masterful selector isn't something anybody with a notebook and Traktor can do. it needs lots of practice and love for the music.

[youtube][/youtube]

[pinksoir]

If anyone is interested, I did a deep enough analysis in my thesis and I stuck it up online for anyone's perusal. Sections II and III are really where it deals with this sort of stuff. As a whole it's by no means exhaustive as there was a 10,000 word limit so I had to edit like crazy and leave a bunch of good stuff out, but a lot of my research led me to the conclusion that DJs are actually musicians, yet limited with what they have to work with in terms of 'creating' anything new. It's a philosophy paper so bear that in mind...

http://www.bearworship.com/index.php/co ... ransition/

[KBD_TRACKER]

If anyone is interested, I did a deep enough analysis in my thesis and I stuck it up online for anyone's perusal. Sections II and III are really where it deals with this sort of stuff. As a whole it's by no means exhaustive as there was a 10,000 word limit so I had to edit like crazy and leave a bunch of good stuff out, but a lot of my research led me to the conclusion that DJs are actually musicians, yet limited with what they have to work with in terms of 'creating' anything new. It's a philosophy paper so bear that in mind...

http://www.bearworship.com/index.php/co ... ransition/

Interesting. Thanks for sharing this.

[pinksoir]

No probs. Actually, the cited works contain a bunch of good stuff that is far better written than mine (lots are available online) and some deals directly with the creative position of the DJ.

This one in particular is a short (9 pages) but good read: “Rethinking Live Electronic Music: A DJ Perspective” by Vandemast Bell. PM me if anyone's interested in reading it.

[Calgonstudio]

then the DJ is like a projectionist....... I disagree with this analogy,(follow my madness carefully)
what is the roll of a projectionist...to play the movie, there is no talent in it(no offense to the loyal projectionist who make my movie experience smooth and Uneventful) ok your average Wedding DJ and high school dance Dj is as someone else said more of an User, they guide you to a seat and get you out of the seat much like most crappy dj's.
A Great Artistic Dj's like Dave Clark, Jeff Mills, Octave 1, Jazzy Jeff Carl Craig , they are more like Directors, taking music(actors) and Directing it to go in different Directions, that we the audience would not think of. A Director, envisions how a scene will play out, they try to manipulate the emotion of the viewer. Artistic DJ's do the same thing, but in a different manner, most have an idea of where they want to take someone else's music how to manipulate phrases, bars, sections of music to achieve a result.

[KBD_TRACKER]

then the DJ is like a projectionist....... I disagree with this analogy,(follow my madness carefully)
...
A Great Artistic Dj's like Dave Clark, Jeff Mills, Octave 1, Jazzy Jeff Carl Craig , they are more like Directors, taking music(actors) and Directing it to go in different Directions, that we the audience would not think of. A Director, envisions how a scene will play out, they try to manipulate the emotion of the viewer. Artistic DJ's do the same thing, but in a different manner, most have an idea of where they want to take someone else's music how to manipulate phrases, bars, sections of music to achieve a result.

Ok, I tend to agree with you, knowing from personal experience how difficult, demanding, intense, a task it is to mix skillfully and creatively music for people.

But I believe there is some bitterness or resentment from musicians/producers who feel that the DJ is getting undeserved recognition (and quite exceptionally $ retribution) for playing things they did not "make" themselves. Thus the charge that DJs are just operators... while musicians are the "real" artists.

[griffin avid]

A Director, envisions how a scene will play out, they try to manipulate the emotion of the viewer. Artistic DJ's do the same thing, but in a different manner, most have an idea of ....

This is a great idea, but is also a stretch in most cases.
A director- directs the actors and does this WHILE THE SCENES ARE BEING FILMED.
A PRODUCER directs musicians/artists WHILE THE MUSIC IS BEING CREATED.
Musically, that's the 'mixed by' title and crosses somewhat to the engineers seat.

AFTER everything is created and filmed - post editing is still done BEFORE THE MOVIE IS FINISHED.
That would be the EDITOR - editing bits of film to create the finished work.

If you are taking FULLY FINISHED FILMS and editing them/mixing them/splicing them, you are not a film maker.
A DJ is mixing fully finished works and if he working from stems and bits he produced, it's live mixing from a 'previous hat' he was wearing. i.e. music he created as an artist/producer/musician.

[Stab Frenzy]

Everything doesn't have to be like something else. If making music is like making music then DJs are like DJs.

[griffin avid]

Everything doesn't have to be like something else.

Except, if you've worked with audio and video (as I am sure you have) you have noticed similarities in the creative process and mindset. And, yep several of the job titles in both fields are almost identical.

So yeah, there is plenty to compare and contrast....
and more important, people love analogies, similes and seeing human traits and shadows of themselves in everything....

That's us as a species.

[Stab Frenzy]

Everything doesn't have to be like something else.

Except, if you've worked with audio and video (as I am sure you have) you have noticed similarities in the creative process and mindset. And, yep several of the job titles in both fields are almost identical.

Holy s**t you're right! And the guy who drives the train is an engineer, and the guy who records the songs is an engineer! And the train has a conductor, and so does the orchestra! Dude you're blowing my mind, mass transit is exactly like music! The projectionist is probably friends with the ticket inspector!