MIDI Timing, Sync & Sequencing

HQ. 17 · Post by **HQ. 17** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:38 am

Basically we have a hardware setup of a few drum machines & synths. The main studio computer is a Mac Pro with emagic AMT8 MIDI Interface. My software of choice is Logic Pro.

With the master clock and some polyphonic MIDI sequences coming from Logic / AMT8 the timing is pretty damn sloppy. I know that this is a problem with all PC / MAC based MIDI applications.

I would like to be able to record our tracks as live takes from the hardware therefore avoiding digital multitracking. This is not viable with the current set up as the MIDI timing / sync is too sloppy.

We have a Monomachine which can be used to sequence our mono synths, the problem is that without the computer I have nothing to sequence polysynths.

Therefore I have come up with three possible solutions, I would appreciate your opinions / experiences of each.

1. AKAI MPC 4000 - 4 MIDI outs solid timing and sequencing. What are they like for sequencing synths? Can any other MPCs sequence polysynths?

2. Atari ST - Well renown as the tightest computer based MIDI sequencers.

3. Some kind of hardware sequencer. Any recommendations?

Thanks for your help!

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:31 am

All MPCs can sequence polyphonically, they're pretty good for that actually.

HQ. 17 · Post by **HQ. 17** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:57 am

Aah didn't realise this. That leaves me with more options. I figured that because the 4000 was the only MPC with keygroups that it would be the only one that would sequence polyphonically. Maybe I should go for a 2500 or 3000.

Have to say after further research the Atari route is pretty tempting though, however an Atari is still a computer, an MPC would probably be more intuitive.

Thanks for the info Stab, are you an MPC user? I have never owned one.

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:09 am

I had a 1000 for a couple of years but I sold it and so my sequencing in Live now. I'm doing a lot more playing by hand as well so I don't need a sequencer as much. Got an MPD 24 so I'd still have some pads but MPD+Live isn't as cohesive as the MPC was. I still prefer Live though.

xpander · Post by **xpander** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:13 am

weird- the amt8/logic combo was supposed to take advantage of improved timing by buffering the midi to the interface, like my MTP A/V & DP does. i would love to take a look & listen to how heavy the MIDI load is, the studio is set up, etc.

hollandturbine · Post by **hollandturbine** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:18 am

Can you run MTC to a MIDI input on the front of unit for sync and ditch the USB, or would that not work? I am asuming that you have the latest drivers and it still wont work with your new machine via USB.

HQ. 17 · Post by **HQ. 17** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:56 am

Can you run MTC to a MIDI input on the front of unit for sync, or would that not work?

Unfortunately none of our hardware generates MTC. This would be a way of getting Logic slaved to the hardware though. I have a JL Cooper PPS 100 MIDI/SMPTE Sync generator that I need to experiment with. It may be able to convert MIDI Clock or DIN to MTC.

weird- the amt8/logic combo was supposed to take advantage of improved timing by buffering the midi to the interface, like my MTP A/V & DP does. i would love to take a look & listen to how heavy the MIDI load is, the studio is set up, etc.

Using the AMT8 admittedly gives the tightest performance I have ever got from a PC or MAC. Still not tight enough though!

Here's a brief outline of the setup:

Drums (DIN via Doepfer MIDI to DIN, Jomox sequenced by Machine Drum):

TR-707
TR-727
TR-808
Jomox AirBase99
Jomox MBase01
Elektron Machinedrum
(Soon to be joined by TR-606 & TR-909)

Synths (MIDI to CV via Kenton Pro Solo):

Moog Voyager RME
Elektron Monomachine
Alesis A6 Andromeda
Yamaha CS-10
Future Retro Revolution
Roland SH-101
Roland MC-202
(More poly on the GAS list)

+ AKAI S5000 & other bits and bobs.

Obviously some of the timing issues are due to using individual hardware sequencers. Also the fact that we are using DIN sync stuff w/ MIDI (possible solution here http://www.innerclocksystems.com/). But I don't think the Master Clock from Logic is very stable even with AMT8. One option is to use Ableton Live for MIDI sequencing slaved via MIDI Clock from hardware. However I am beginning to think I would rather sequence sans computer ie. with MPC.

I have been researching Atari STEs and Notator, heard nothing but great things. Also a mate of mine has a similar setup but with more gear and a 24 track tape machine. I think they have the Atari slaved to the 909, apparently it runs great.

Basically I want to get the timing as tight as possible so I can record tracks as live passes and not have to multitrack to Logic or PT where I can tighten up the timing. It's bad enough that I will have record the mix bus in digital let alone convert everything twice. Really want a 1/2" Reel to Reel!

I think at this point it's between an Atari or an MPC. One advantage of the MPC 4000 for example is that it will handle my sampling needs too.

Thanks for your help guys.

hageir · Post by **hageir** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:50 pm

Well, the MIDI is hardwired to the proccessor of the Atari, I've got one, but I just need a new monitor + notator / creator (which one's still in use today? i.e. being updated and stuff?)

You would need the dongle though, because it's protected..
Pretty hard to find..

WOW: a lot cheaper than an MPC and a lot cooler

€70!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ATARI-STe-1040-C-LA ... p1638.m118

good luck anyways and a great setup!

HQ. 17 · Post by **HQ. 17** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:45 pm

Thanks for the link to the auction I'll check it out.

From what I have gathered most people are using Notator.

If you need any Atari bits this guy is a specialist in the UK http://www.keychange.co.uk/

I have been talking to him today via email, sound guy.

Cheers man