anyone else using a digi002 (or 003) & additional inputs

[space6oy]

so, yeah, starting another thread about my digi002 mess. scrapping the XLR 1/4" scenario from that other thread...sorry about that.

here's my whole scenario:

i have a digi002 rack, and have dealt w/ its jacks being on the back but am going to be getting a desk with built in rack space and won't exactly want to be moving the desk to get behind it and switch cables around.

i also want to have more inputs via some other gear w/ lightpipe.

had an m-audio octane, which did have send/return jacks to chain processors but only had two line ins, and i'm using those more than mics anymore, though i'd still like to be able to use a bunch of mics sometimes (to record a drumset, etc).

also tried a behringer ADA8000 (yes, just as a cheap possibility) which was nice because of having 8 mic & line jacks, plus they're on the front, plus it's just a single rack space...but it doesn't have send/returns.

so...it's about like i'd be stuck running mics to a preamp, then to whatever processors, then to another preamp just for its lightpipe connection to the digi002. kind of sucks doubling up preamps. haven't found a way around that though.

i love pro tools and don't really want to switch to other software. also know i could scrap hardware processors and just use plugins...but that'd kind of suck. i like hands on, and like being able to mess w/ my few EQ's & compressors to process a signal before it's recorded.

anyone have any suggestions?
maybe i'd be stuck shelling out for HD gear.

[Stab Frenzy]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but have a look around the back of the octane, there's eight line ins.

If I were you I'd get a patchbay and normal the mic outs from the back of the octane to the line ins. That way they're out the front so you can patch whatever you like into the signal chain without having to go through a preamp twice.

[space6oy]

HAD an octane, it's gone.

i do already have a 1/4" patchbay to work with and the ADA8000 has individual XLR line outs.

mic -> preamp XLR in -> XLR out -> patchbay -> processor(s) -> line in

that the path you're meaning? pretty sure that'd cause one chain to be taking up two channels on the pre, one for the preamp and another for the line in. or are you talking about simply running the signal through processors before the preamp? that works fine for line level but not mics...right?

[Stab Frenzy]

HAD an octane, it's gone.

That's a pity, it does exactly what you want to do but unfortunately the ADA8000 doesn't.

i do already have a 1/4" patchbay to work with and the ADA8000 has individual XLR line outs.

mic -> preamp XLR in -> XLR out -> patchbay -> processor(s) -> line in

that the path you're meaning? pretty sure that'd cause one chain to be taking up two channels on the pre, one for the preamp and another for the line in. or are you talking about simply running the signal through processors before the preamp? that works fine for line level but not mics...right?

That way you said would take up two channels, but also the ADA8000 line outs are outputs for the lightpipe D/A stage, not the analogue inputs. So the chain would have to go like this:

mic -> preamp XLR in -> A/D stage -> bus in Pro Tools -> D/A stage -> XLR out -> patchbay -> processor(s) -> line in

The AD-DA stages in would introduce latency so you won't be able to monitor the mics in real time, which might be a problem for you. Unfortunately the 002 low latency monitoring only works on the main outs, not the ADAT outs.

What I'd do in that case (and what I often do when I'm mixing, to run tracks through my hardware fx) is just record the mic clean and then bounce the track through the hardware later. It messes with your workflow a bit but it's usually quicker and easier than trying to fix up track delays by hand after bussing back out and through fx.

[space6oy]

just read about that in the ADA8000's manual and wondered, interesting but strange how it's routed that way.

wouldn't the octane still have required two channels to be running the signal through a preamp then processors before the lightpipe? not only two channels on the pre, but two input assignments to pro tools...would be an annoying complication. would limit simultaneous ins, too.

wouldn't it? headache...

thanks for your help, stabby.

gotta be something out there that'll simplify this for me...
if the ADA8000 just had send/returns before the lightpipe out, it'd do the trick.

i think...

[Stab Frenzy]

The Octane has a preamp out before the line in on the back, so you can insert a processor before you go to the A/D stage and just have to use one channel. Unless of course if you wanted to record the clean signal as well as the effected, that's always gonna take two channels.

It would be handy if the ADA8000 had the same thing but it's built to be as cheap as possible so there are a few features left out.

[space6oy]

The Octane has a preamp out before the line in on the back, so you can insert a processor before you go to the A/D stage and just have to use one channel. Unless of course if you wanted to record the clean signal as well as the effected, that's always gonna take two channels.

hmm...so the line in re-routes the XLR in signal to the pre out instead of to the lightpipe, just gets back to that through the line in? and then if you ran a line signal straight to the line in it'd just not be run through the pre, right? seriously...thanks for educating me on this. even if i'm not going to be using that octane or the ADA8000, it's helping me figure out what i need to be looking for.

[Stab Frenzy]

You might want to check the manual to be sure, but the usual way it works is that the pre out is always active and also goes to the line in. Putting a jack into the line in replaces the signal from the pre with whatever you plug into the line in. Pretty much exactly like how a half-normalled patchbay works.

Hope I explained that properly, it would be a bit easier to explain with a picture...

Here's a cut and paste from the SOS review.

...use the rear-panel TRS A-D Line Input jacks, where inserting a jack plug overrides the XLR input. The instrument inputs on channels one and two also override the XLRs and have a very high input impedance of 3M(omega) so as not to load passive guitar pickups.

Each channel also has a direct analogue output, again on a TRS jack, that may be used balanced or unbalanced. Plugging into these doesn't disconnect anything, so they can be used as regular outputs to feed some other analogue system or they can be used in combination with the inputs to provide semi-normalised insert points.

What you're after is a mic pre with insert points before the A/D stage. There are a few out there but as it's a feature that adds a little to the cost you don't often find it on cheaper pres. You also don't often find it on more expensive pres cause when you're paying a lot for your pre you often like to pair it with a particular convertor through a patchbay and then you can use the patchbay as the insert.

[space6oy]

the octane's manual isn't very informative.

What you're after is a mic pre with insert points before the A/D stage. There are a few out there but as it's a feature that adds a little to the cost you don't often find it on cheaper pres. You also don't often find it on more expensive pres cause when you're paying a lot for your pre you often like to pair it with a particular convertor through a patchbay and then you can use the patchbay as the insert.

exactly. and preferably with input jacks on the front!
i know...picky & demanding. any idea what those few might be? already back to digging through pre's...

[space6oy]

The DigiMax FS is an eight-channel microphone preamplifier, with 24-bit/96k ADAT dual SMUX I/O and word clock I/O. Loaded with direct outputs and inserts on every channel, the DIGIMAX FS is the perfect hardware expansion for your FireStudio or any digital recording system with optical light pipe expansion capability including DigiDesign’s HD and 002 systems, RME, YAMAHA, Alesis, Mackie and many others.

might be a winner! long as those inserts are before the A/D...right?

[Stab Frenzy]

Yeah that should work, the inserts have to be before the A/D otherwise they're not really inserts. It's also got outputs so you can use it as a D/A box to increase your number of outputs too.

[space6oy]

having read through every multi-channel pre on sweetwater & MF, that's the ONLY one i've found w/ inserts before the A/D out and jacks on the front. will probably go for it, but if anyone knows of any others, bring 'em on...