Using Compression on Synths?

[jonathap]

I'm not a terribly experienced synth user, but I have some old analogue synths that probably unsurprisingly can be a bit unwieldy at times in terms of volume. On resonant sounds certain notes will be louder than others (even after fiddling with key tracking) and volume also varies wildly from patch patch. If I'm in a live situation, and I start fiddling with knobs in real time (especially filter/resonance) the problem gets even worse.

So what I'm thinking I need is some kind of compressor suitable for live use, something subtle that won't color my sound. Something I can leave on all the time and just kind of "tame" my keyboards dynamics a little bit.

It seems like an obvious thing and yet I've not yet found exactly what I'm imagining. I've tried a few guitar type pedals and those didn't work so well. It seems I may need to shell out for a studio style rack compressor?

I'm wondering what people use in their own live set ups, and if they have any advice for me.

Thanks!

[logicalhippo]

I usually run things through my computer with ableton, so don't take any of my advice too seriously.

You might want to check out the "smashup" pedal by Alesis. It's part of their "ModFX" serires which seem to be pedals for synth users and DJs, which are now *REALLY* cheap (think $20). I tried it once in the store and liked it. It definitely sounded more "studio" to me than guitar pedals, at least to me. I wasn't blown away by it, but if I were in your situation I might at least check it out. I use some other pedals from the same series all the time.

Other than that and guitar pedals, yeah, I think you're basically stuck with rack gear, which can get quite pricey.

[space6oy]

which are now *REALLY* cheap (think $20)

actually think about twice that much. i like my smashup but usually only use it for crushing things.

if you're looking for something simple w/ presets, the presonus comp16's not bad. doesn't get much more simple than that. it's mono though.

[Stab Frenzy]

I'm gonna put this in Sound Production, I believe that's the best place for it.

Regarding the question: I run my synths through compression a fair bit, but usually for the sound of it rather than just to keep the level in check. For example I never could get a great bass sound out of my Evolver until I started running it through a valve compressor I own, now I use it for bass a fair bit.

I know what you mean about the patch level issue playing live, but running through a compressor isn't the best way to sort it out. It'll get your levels more even but the ones that are coming out of the synth loudest are gonna get hammered by the compressor and you're gonna hear it. Better that you spend an afternoon running through your live set and adjusting the output levels of each of your patches so they're all fairly consistent, then if you still have issues with the resonance boosting too much you can use a compressor for that.

Compressors, especially cheap ones, work best when they're just applying a little bit of gain reduction. Giving them a fairly even level to start off with helps them work better.

[Solderman]

I use the oft recommended RNC 1773 for limiting(as an insert channel) due to its great price and ultra-transparent performance. ie. what you describe as getting varying patch volumes more equal. I still agree with Stab that you might want to look into a starved-plate valve compressor for some bass sounds(maybe an Art Pro VLA). Also setting the maximum allowable volume for a patch(while still preserving whatever dynamics it had) is recommended anyway because using a limiter to bring down the louder patches not only mushes their dynamics, but often raises the overall noise floor.

[OriginalJambo]

On resonant sounds certain notes will be louder than others (even after fiddling with key tracking) and volume also varies wildly from patch patch. If I'm in a live situation, and I start fiddling with knobs in real time (especially filter/resonance) the problem gets even worse.

If I'm understanding you correctly you probably be best looking at a multi-band compressor if possible. Ya see providing there's no modulation of the volume or resonance there shouldn't really be much of a difference in actual level when you play different keys if your patches have the same gain settings.

I think your problem may lie with the human ears since they are especially sensive to mid frequencies, so whilst you may have two patches that give the same level one might sound much louder than another simply because its mids are emphesized or the other patches' are cut.

With a multi-band compressor you have more control over what part of the signal to compress - you could try honing into the band that the resonance is boosting when you play these offending notes, although with filter key tracking this can obviously change.

It might not be essential but it there's no doubt it'll give you a little more control over an ordinary compressor if needed. You could also use EQ as well but obviously that may hinder the overall sound, as opposed to only kicking in when you play these notes that are giving you trouble.

Now that I think about it, a De-esser might give you results too - worth experimenting with maybe.

[Alex Hamilton]

On resonant sounds certain notes will be louder than others (even after fiddling with key tracking) and volume also varies wildly from patch patch. If I'm in a live situation, and I start fiddling with knobs in real time (especially filter/resonance) the problem gets even worse.

If I'm understanding you correctly you probably be best looking at a multi-band compressor if possible. Ya see providing there's no modulation of the volume or resonance there shouldn't really be much of a difference in actual level when you play different keys if your patches have the same gain settings.

I think your problem may lie with the human ears since they are especially sensive to mid frequencies, so whilst you may have two patches that give the same level one might sound much louder than another simply because its mids are emphesized or the other patches' are cut.

With a multi-band compressor you have more control over what part of the signal to compress - you could try honing into the band that the resonance is boosting when you play these offending notes, although with filter key tracking this can obviously change.

It might not be essential but it there's no doubt it'll give you a little more control over an ordinary compressor if needed. You could also use EQ as well but obviously that may hinder the overall sound, as opposed to only kicking in when you play these notes that are giving you trouble.

Now that I think about it, a De-esser might give you results too - worth experimenting with maybe.

Considering that the synth is likely to just have one resonant peak per patch, I should think that any compressor with a frequency-tunable sidechain (i.e. a De-esser) would be sufficient as long as its frequency range covered the areas that the peaks are at. If the OP buys digital and just saves his patches as presets, he wouldn't even have to fiddle around with it during the set.

[GeneralBigbag]

If he's changing patches during the set from, e.g., a bass to a lead, he's going to have resonant peaks in different parts of the spectrum, which would require different settings on a multiband compressor - I think a cheap single band like the RNC, RNLA or VLA would probably do the job.

[Stab Frenzy]

I still agree with Stab that you might want to look into a starved-plate valve compressor for some bass sounds(maybe an Art Pro VLA).

I didn't recommend a starved plate compressor, in fact if you asked me I'd recommend avoiding starved plate compression altogether, especially on bass. They make things go all mushy. My compressor runs a full 300V to the tubes, it's a Sebatron Thorax.

Anyway, all this advice that everyone is putting in is well meaning I'm sure, but overkill for live use. Get your patch levels all the same (not all as loud as they'll go, just a good medium to loud level. If they need to be louder there's plenty of gain in the FOH desk) then if there are still bits jumping out buy an RNC and have your FOH engineer put it over the synth buss, or just insert it on your channel/s if you're submixing or just have one synth on stage. Trust me, I do a fair bit of work as a live engineer and also gig in an all synth band, I know what I'm talking about.

[tallowwaters]

I gotta say, I like how much you care. I dont usually give a s**t what the synth is doing live, as long as it is loud.

[pflosi]

and live, it has not to be perfect. who cares if ur audience realizes that u put the volume of one synth down after u changed a patch and played a note and blew the speakers away. u can also write down, what volume level on which synth for which patch would be accurate, and change before blowing the speakers 8)

[nathanscribe]

something subtle that won't color my sound. Something I can leave on all the time and just kind of "tame" my keyboards dynamics a little bit.

I recently got a Boss CS-3 to tame the output of a couple of self-oscillating-feedback delays, and so far it works a treat. It might be designed for guitars, but it's extremely simple and can add a subtle something. I wouldn't want it to be my only compressor - I'll hopefully get a RNC/RNLA soonish - but at the moment my CS is in a chain of about 5 effects stuck on a Moog Rogue, and it does exactly what I needed it to. Good points - cheap, compact, no fuss. Bad points - limited control, mono only.

[Zamise]

I'm no compressor expert either, but I too don't think that alone will completely solve all those kind of level issues. It might help, maybe even a lot and much more then some things, but the idea of going in and checking your individual patch settings and their levels would prob work best. I mean you get a compressor it becomes a slipperly slope, you'll then need to get an external 25 band EQ, noise gate, limiter with side chain, expensive filter bank etc. etc.. Compressor can help a lot though, but I find myself tweaking it just as much as anything else, if not than more everytime the songs change with difrent patches. Its a quick and dirty EQ for me, it keeps me from having to menu dive during a live performance as much to hit the synth's master EQ or patch/voice EQ, velocity, or whacked out cutoff setting on the filter, but then it still has to go back again or adjusted for the next one. If you can get the sounds to be dynamically similar in the first place, it will eliminate a lot of compressor riding too, then you can concentrate more on drinking your beer or snorting your drugs, pointing at the crowd or whatever it is we do while we are fake playing our synths.

[Solderman]

I didn't recommend a starved plate compressor...My compressor runs a full 300V to the tubes, it's a Sebatron Thorax.

Mmm. Pity not everyone is ready to pluck down 2 grand for a single channel valve strip.

For live use, you might as well run everything through something cheap that's just going to clip the peaks. That and as good a mix as you can set up in realtime.

[brian.only]

I also have good results w/ the Boss CS2 for Synth Bass ,Elec piano, and some Guitar. I dont really use it as a limiter but it does even out the response especially in the low end in regards to bass and piano.
I tend to agree w/ Stab here though I would attenuate all your patches so they have the same output volume if your synths are recent enough to have patch memory.