How to set up effects processing units

[RD9]

So I'm trying to figure out the most efficient/cost-effective effects processing setup possible (hardware only, no software) and looking for some opinions. I obviously don't want to get a reverb, delay, chorus fx unit for every instrument, but I do want some flexibility. I was wondering what other people's setups look like.

Some general questions:

1. How many of you use more than one dedicated delay unit (not built into the instrument)?
2. Is it normal to use only one reverb unit for the entire mix (where/how do you insert it in the mix)?
3. Do you ever use reverb on instruments selectively? For ex., drums and lead only but not on bass and pads?
4. If so, do you ever gang up instruments and apply an effect to them and isolate other instruments? How is this done?
5. Any other tips/advice?

So far, I've been very minimal in using effects, but I'm starting to experiment a little bit more. And I've gotten spoiled with learning on the Radias where each instrument/part can have up to two effects + a master effect for all 4. Now that I'm working with separate instruments, it's starting to get tricky.

Any thoughts?

[pricklyrobot]

What's your current setup? Are you looking to buy some additional gear (if so what's your budget), or just make better use of what you have now?

In my case I've found having a mixer (with enough inputs to keep all of my synths connected at all times) and all of my effects/synth audio-ins/etc. connected to a patchbay (actually just grabbed a second Neutrik patchbay, you'll fill up those slots quicker than you think ) to be the most flexible solution.

[Z]

I use multiple hardware processors and hook them to the AUX sends to my mixers that way I can use all processors with all instruments and adjust the amount of effect per instrument.

Surely, there are online resources for such information. I learned recording/mixing/synthesis techniques from reading books and magazines back in the 80's before this wonderful world of internets.

[RD9]

What's your current setup? Are you looking to buy some additional gear (if so what's your budget), or just make better use of what you have now?

In my case I've found having a mixer (with enough inputs to keep all of my synths connected at all times) and all of my effects/synth audio-ins/etc. connected to a patchbay (actually just grabbed a second Neutrik patchbay, you'll fill up those slots quicker than you think ) to be the most flexible solution.

Currently I'm using:
1. Evolver keyboard (already has delay effect)
2. Doepfer MS-404 (might swap this with a poly like a Matrix-1000 or Nord Lead)
3. Korg MS-20
4. Drumulator
5. MAQ16/3 sequencer (might swap this and the Drumulator w/ a Korg EMX which has drums+sequencer)

Effects so far: (plan on getting more, but not sure what to get yet)
1. Roland DEP-5
2. Boss RV-5

I also have a Mackie mixer. I'm currently considering getting a chorus/ensemble, space echo, another delay, etc. Budget is open, but I'm trying to keep it reasonable.

The patchbay sounds like a possibly good idea. Hm...

[pflosi]

1. yes I do. a space echo and an Ibanez AD 150
2. usually I have 2 reverbs in a mix, both on send/return loops. one for drums, one for the rest
3. almost never use reverb on bass, seldom on kicks. sometimes I use a direct reverb if the particular instrument has to be drowned in reverb
4. yes. with send/return loops or aux grouping
5. +1 for a patchbay, and label it well!

also have a look into guitar pedals for fx

[RD9]

1. yes I do. a space echo and an Ibanez AD 150
2. usually I have 2 reverbs in a mix, both on send/return loops. one for drums, one for the rest
3. almost never use reverb on bass, seldom on kicks. sometimes I use a direct reverb if the particular instrument has to be drowned in reverb
4. yes. with send/return loops or aux grouping
5. +1 for a patchbay, and label it well!

also have a look into guitar pedals for fx

Wow. Great feedback pflosi. Thanks!

[pflosi]

you're welcome

if you're after vintage sounds, I'd recommend strongly to get a BBD delay, new or old... it can do so much to the sound, not only in terms of classical echoes, it's often almost some kind of spring-reverbish sound (depending on the settings and your playing etc.). there are tons of guitar pedal bbd delays, most aren't even expensive... of course a tape echo would be nice too

[Stab Frenzy]

1. I have a lot of different delays. E1010, Timefactor, Sound of Shadows, Memory Boy, DM-100, KP-3, Adrenalinn II, AD-7, DD100, DD400 and a couple more. And all my synths have delay built in as well, in fact I often use synths as effects units. They all sound different and are useful for different things.
2. Depends on the sound you're going for. You can do a mix with just one and have it sound great, but sometimes it's good to use a couple on different sources to have them wet but still separated. Reverbs should be put on an aux send/return.
3. There's no rules, just do whatever you think sounds good. Generally if you put reverb on things which are very low frequency you'll just muddy up the mix, but if they're sounds that have a high frequency element as well like a kick drum then reverb can work, if it gives you the sound you want.
4. Yes, using a aux send and return as has been mentioned.
5. You get what you pay for generally with effects, but a cheap synth through an expensive reverb will usually sound better than an expensive synth through a cheap reverb. Delay tends to be a bit different, I like the sound of a few cheap delays, but the Timefactor and E1010 are my favourites.

A really handy trick: Instead of getting repeating delays by turning up the feedback in the delay unit, feed it back on itself using the aux send on your mixing board. That way any EQ changes you make will be compounded in the delay repeats so you can get a vintage tone by turning down the highs, keep things from getting muddy by trimming the lows or go crazy sweeping the mids. It's a great way of getting a whole lot of different sounds out of one delay unit.

[RD9]

Thanks Stab. Great feedback. By the way, I think I finally figured out how to use the aux send on my mixer. Haha. Now I think I need a better mixer with multiple aux sends.

And pflosi, I picked up a Carbon Copy, which I think is a BBD right? That thing sounds nice.

[b3groover]

So I'm trying to figure out the most efficient/cost-effective effects processing setup possible (hardware only, no software) and looking for some opinions. I obviously don't want to get a reverb, delay, chorus fx unit for every instrument, but I do want some flexibility. I was wondering what other people's setups look like.

Some general questions:

1. How many of you use more than one dedicated delay unit (not built into the instrument)?
2. Is it normal to use only one reverb unit for the entire mix (where/how do you insert it in the mix)?
3. Do you ever use reverb on instruments selectively? For ex., drums and lead only but not on bass and pads?
4. If so, do you ever gang up instruments and apply an effect to them and isolate other instruments? How is this done?
5. Any other tips/advice?

So far, I've been very minimal in using effects, but I'm starting to experiment a little bit more. And I've gotten spoiled with learning on the Radias where each instrument/part can have up to two effects + a master effect for all 4. Now that I'm working with separate instruments, it's starting to get tricky.

Any thoughts?

1) I have a couple outboard FX boxes. My main one is a Lexicon MX300, which I bought for live use, not really expecting much, but the reverbs blow away any plug-ins I have (and I have some good ones). Also have some moogerfoogers.

2) Depends on the music, but I would say in most cases, no. Most of the time, you'll want a different kind of reverb on percussive elements than you would on melodic parts. One reverb on everything can get muddy real quick; then again, sometimes it can sound good.

Stab covered the aux send / return thing, so no need to retread that.

3) Yes, most definitely. Selectively using reverb can really help add depth to your mixes. You want a certain part to be up front? Don't put any reverb on it. Want something to lay back a bit in the mix? Put a little ambiance on it. There's a million different ways to do it, but when done well you can effectively create depth and help balance the various parts without going nuts on EQ and such.

4) Again, the aux send / return thing is the way to go.

5) Don't be afraid to tune OFF the effects on your digital synths and see what the patches sound like without them. I'm recording to a computer and using a combination of plug-ins and my outboard stuff. I almost always turn all the effects OFF on my digital synths, especially reverb, unless it is an important feature of the patch itself. This allows me to decide what parts to apply FX to, in order to balance the mix, create depth, add space, etc. You can always add reverb later but if you track with reverb already on the part, you can't take it off.

Then again, the way I work involves very little sequencing (I use the computer more like a multitrack tape deck). If you're sequencing via MIDI, you can always change things up until the point of "printing" the mix.

[pflosi]

And pflosi, I picked up a Carbon Copy, which I think is a BBD right? That thing sounds nice.

Yeah it's BBD. Good choice. I picked up a EHX deluxe memory boy yesterday to complement my space echo and Ibanez AD 150. Sounds great too, and the expression pedal input and the lfo are very nice features.

[RD9]

3) Yes, most definitely. Selectively using reverb can really help add depth to your mixes. You want a certain part to be up front? Don't put any reverb on it. Want something to lay back a bit in the mix? Put a little ambiance on it. There's a million different ways to do it, but when done well you can effectively create depth and help balance the various parts without going nuts on EQ and such.

I'm only starting to wrap my head around this and I had a revelation the last couple of days from the feedback on this thread. This whole spatial thing made sense before, but it didn't make as much sense as it does now. Foreground-background and the hierarchy between voices/tracks, that kind of thing. It's sort of obvious now that I think about it. In order to create real volume and dimension, you have to set the tracks apart enough. And reverb is one of the tools you can use. Of course, it depends on the kind of music you're making, but now I see how incredibly important this is. I "hear" so much more when I listen to any song now. Kind of weird.

5) Don't be afraid to tune OFF the effects on your digital synths and see what the patches sound like without them. I'm recording to a computer and using a combination of plug-ins and my outboard stuff. I almost always turn all the effects OFF on my digital synths, especially reverb, unless it is an important feature of the patch itself. This allows me to decide what parts to apply FX to, in order to balance the mix, create depth, add space, etc. You can always add reverb later but if you track with reverb already on the part, you can't take it off.

Then again, the way I work involves very little sequencing (I use the computer more like a multitrack tape deck). If you're sequencing via MIDI, you can always change things up until the point of "printing" the mix.

Yeah, actually I've been trying to avoid effects since the beginning, so this isn't as much of a problem for me. I actually like the raw sound of the oscillators more, since I'm a minimalist. And often I toggle reverb on and off to make sure it's needed. I only use hardware and I haven't really been recording much, so toggling is easy. Anyway I don't think my stuff is "print" worthy yet. I've still got a lot to learn...

[sqweebking]

My current setup is 2 multieffect rack units, Ibanez UE-405, Digitech Studio 400, a RE-20 and a DEP-5. I have a Mackie 1402 mixer which currently has the Digitech and DEP-5 hooked up to the AUX send/returns. Then I have the Ibanez and RE-20 hooked up to my patch bay as well as the Ctrl Room and Alt 3/4 outs so I can patch the effects in before going to and audio interface. Im soon replacing that mixer with a Roland M240 because it has 4 aux sends and seems to meet the needs of a synth studio okay. I like the idea of having all or at least most of my main effects processors hooked up directly to a mixer and the rest can be patched in as needed.

The Digitech Studio 400 is interesting, it has 4 in/outs that can be separated or combined and each one processed or chained together to come up with some interesting results. Granted its probably not the best of effects processors but it seems to be very flexible for cheap.

[pflosi]

What do you think about the UE 405?

[sqweebking]

What do you think about the UE 405?

I think its great, I really like that you can change the order in which the effects are chained and it has a patch point to chain in more if you'd like. The analog delay is why I bought it and that sounds great and the rest of the effects are a big bonus.