Mid-Side Processing

[Stab Frenzy]

I've been experimenting with MS techniques a little bit lately with my modular, to the point where I'm making my own encoder/decoder module for it (not that I really need it, just trying to get back into doing more DIY).

Has anyone else experimented with MS stuff much? It's mostly the realm of mastering processing and location recording, but using it for synths opens up a whole lot of pretty amazing options, like waveshaping the Side while leaving the Mid clean (super-wide stereo effects) and adding things to the Side that aren't in the Mid. To be honest at this stage I've just been paying attention to the Side rather than the Mid, but I'm sure there's a lot to be done with both. Tomorrow when I have some time I'm going to be running waveforms from the E350 in and filtering the M and S separately to see what happens.

So has anyone else got anything to add? Want to hear some demos of what I come up with? Don't care about it at all?

[monolith]

I'll be totally honest and say I dont have a clue what you're talking about, but am really interested to hear what it is.

[Mush]

I've done a lot of Patches that do stuff like that in the G2. I don't use it that much though.

[madtheory]

I use it a lot in recording, mixing and mastering (who doesn't) but it never occurred to me that there would be possibilities with a modular synth. Sounds interesting! I would love to hear what you come up with. How do you create a stereo source in the first place? Is a separately routed pair of detuned oscillators sufficient?

[tallowwaters]

Like most others I've only tried it on mastering, even then I couldn't completely get it to work the way I figured it should. You make it sound fun.

[space6oy]

+1 definitely curious...

[pflosi]

I'm curious too, only used it for mastering one time or another, and then only to cut bass on the sides. I don't master myself anymore (I'm just not good enough, and my room is s**t. And most of the stuff I produce is intended to be released so usually mastered properly.), so I haven't used it in a while. Sounds like a fun module on a modular, anyone makes such a module on a commercial basis or only DIY?

[cornutt]

Has anyone else experimented with MS stuff much? It's mostly the realm of mastering processing and location recording, but using it for synths opens up a whole lot of pretty amazing options, like waveshaping the Side while leaving the Mid clean (super-wide stereo effects) and adding things to the Side that aren't in the Mid.

Wow, that never occurred to me. I'll have to try that. How are you generating your M-S signals -- are you actually miking it up, or are you generating the side by doing L-R in your modular?

[Zamise]

Kind of sounds similar to using Auxiliary FX outs and back in on a mixer? If so, I've noticed delays tends to come through better in the mix.

[Stab Frenzy]

Zam: Not at all.

Cornutt: I'm using an E350 which has two outputs at the same frequency but with independent wavetable addresses mostly. So the signal is phase-coherent, but L and R are different spectrally. Could also do stuff like run parallel signal paths, but I don't have enough modules for that (yet!)

pflosi: Nobody makes a dedicated MS encoder/decoder module, but it's an easy patch to set up with some mults, voltage inverters and summers. I'm using a matrix mixer which makes it pretty easy at the moment, but a dedicated module would let me use the MM for modulation again, which it's great at.

It's a pretty fun thing to play with but isn't going to completely revolutionise popular music or anything. It's one of those things I guess where once you get a modular you start disappearing into the world of 'what if I did this?' and then eight hours of patching later you have this amazing fwonk that nobody's ever heard before, and won't particularly want to again in the future.

[b3groover]

Yep. I've used it in mastering, in mic'ing (overheads on drums, mainly), and with synths to widen them. Processing each signal differently is a good idea. Might have to mess around with that myself later. Good call!

[Stab Frenzy]

Did a little recording of some stuff just then, and put it up here on my soundcloud:

http://soundcloud.com/worng/msnoodles

Just three little snippets, the first is all mono, the second has MS on it so there is a LPF on the mid and HPF on the side, both of which are being modulated by envelopes which have their decay times modulated by a quadrature osc with about 270 degrees of offset. I was hoping for less change in mod amounts but I ran out of patch cables to run to attenuators. The third is the same but has spring reverb added to the side signal before being decoded.

So there you go, have a listen. The stereo effects aren't that wide in a panning from left to right kind of way, in fact there is none of that. They can get very wide and phasey when the HPF was down though, and at one point (not on this recording) the HPF was starting to self-oscillate on the side signal which caused really wide phase effects. Pretty rad.

[cartesia]

I use it sometimes to add stereo-ness to synth sounds - phasing on the sides, delay, reverb, etc.. distortion is a cool one.. but haven't spent much time experimenting with the possibiliities really, just used it for subtle stuff.

[3rdConstruction]

Sounds pretty interesting. Processing on your demo is nicely subtle, to my ears anyway...

...at one point (not on this recording) the HPF was starting to self-oscillate on the side signal which caused really wide phase effects. Pretty rad.

If you get more extreme or heavy handed with processing the side channel, might this cause problems if it's summed to mono? (Although I guess single speaker playback systems are a rarity these days, so it's unlikely ever gonna be an issue.)

[Stab Frenzy]

The side channel disappears if it's summed to mono, so anything at all on the side will be gone, that's pretty much the point of MS.