What about using different effects simultaneously?

[fh991586]

I can't believe I'm the first to consider this, so tell me if you tried it before, and what was the result?

The simultaneous part means on the 2 outputs from stereo synth, but with different effects (either pedals or rack). What if you use a chorus on the left and a reverb on the right? Or the same effect, with a different setting?

For example, some pedals are mono, so the only way to get a stereo sound would be to use 2 pedals at the same time, and hoping to get the exact settings on both.

[commodorejohn]

It would work exactly as you'd expect. What exactly it would sound like depends on how your synth does stereo (is it like the Matrix-6, where it simply routes the "lower" timbre of a split to left and the "upper" timbre to right, or is it actually full stereo panning?) and whether you keep the outputs confined to their original channels or put them somewhere else in the stereo field...

[Stab Frenzy]

I can't believe I'm the first to consider this, so tell me if you tried it before, and what was the result?

The simultaneous part means on the 2 outputs from stereo synth, but with different effects (either pedals or rack). What if you use a chorus on the left and a reverb on the right? Or the same effect, with a different setting?

For example, some pedals are mono, so the only way to get a stereo sound would be to use 2 pedals at the same time, and hoping to get the exact settings on both.

It does work, but it doesn't often sound great as a cohesive sound. But if it sounds good to you then do it. You can get more interesting effects if you process the signal separately as M-S information rather than L-R. Lots of really cool things that you can do with that, which allows you to use mono effects and get coherent stereo sounds when you recombine it. Modulation effects on the S signal especially.

[fh991586]

I might ask a dumb question, but what do you mean by M-S information or S signal?

[ninja6485]

M-S stands for mid-side. So instead of sending the left channel to effect A and right to effect B, you would be sending the middle to effect A and the sides to effect B. Modulation effects are especially nice when applied to the sides.

[fh991586]

[Blank Stare]

Never heard of this technique, and most website seem to explain it using microphones or software... After looking at 5 or 6 different pages on the subject, I still don't understand how to convert L+R into M/S.

Anyway, I guess it's another ballpark than what I meant in my initial post.

[ninja6485]

I googled free mid-side plugin and found a sound on sound link that lead me here:
http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_solo

Looks cool, and there were others that came up in various links as well. Great if you're using a DAW!

[fh991586]

Well, I am not...

[Stab Frenzy]

It's not that hard to do in hardware either, provided you've got access to a desk with phase buttons on the channels and groups.

You need three channels on the desk; one which is the left signal, one which is the right signal and one which is the right signal with the phase (polarity actually) flipped.

Assign the L to groups 1 & 2, the +R group 1 and -R to group 2. Your Mid channel is now coming out on the group 1 output and Side is coming out group 2. Process them however you want and then recombine them using another three channels; M, +S and -S. Assign M to left and right, +S to L and -S to R. Just like magic your stereo signal is back together! Adjust the level of the M channel to change the width, less M will be wider, more M will be narrower.

edit: Typo made the theory not make sense/work

[optimus prime]

Does that really work for any two signals? I guess I should just try and hear for myself, but if I understand correctly, M-S was originally a microphone technique which utilizes a bi-directional (figure-of-eight) response characteristic microphone for the S signal, placed at 90 degrees with a cardioid mic (M signal). It seems strange that you could just do that with, for example, two signals taken with separated cardioid mics, and expect a natural stereo image.

[Stab Frenzy]

This is different to the mic technique, you take a stereo signal and separate it first, process it and then put it back together. The stereo image coming out is as natural as the one you put in, minus the processing.

[fh991586]

It's not that hard to do in hardware either, provided you've got access to a desk with phase buttons on the channels and groups.

I really don't think I do... Seriously, all this is way beyond the concept of simply using pedals of each outputs of a synth!

[pflosi]

Well if it's just about using effects simultaneously, you can also just chain the fx up. Or run them in parallel via Y-cables (to split, NOT to mix) or a patchbay or a splitter or... No need for separate outputs!

[ninja6485]

It's not that hard to do in hardware either, provided you've got access to a desk with phase buttons on the channels and groups.

You need three channels on the desk; one which is the left signal, one which is the right signal and one which is the right signal with the phase (polarity actually) flipped.

Assign the L to groups 1 & 2, the +R group 2 and -R to group 2. Your Mid channel is now coming out on the group 1 output and Side is coming out group 2. Process them however you want and then recombine them using another three channels; M, +S and -S. Assign M to left and right, +S to L and -S to R. Just like magic your stereo signal is back together! Adjust the level of the M channel to change the width, less M will be wider, more M will be narrower.

I can't seem to get this to work. When I combined everything at the end things I panned left and right all play in the center. I can compare it to listening to the mid+ side via plugins, and something is definitly wrong. Is there anything about whether the tracks/ groups are mono or stereo, or how things are panned that could affect this?

[pflosi]

I think Stabby has a small oversight mistake in it, I spotted it before but hesitated to post: I think -R has to go to group 1...?

BTW and a bit off topic, I have a M-S splitted EQ in all my masters (Ableton EQ has an M-S mode) to cut everything below about 200hz on the sides... Recommended if you're going for vinyl...