Critique my planned setup please...

[chordmemories]

Hello all. I have been lurking here a long time to gather information on setting up a studio to make techno/house music. I think I have things pretty well narrowed down, but I am interested in getting some feedback from people with more experience.

I need the following sounds: nasty pwm bass that only a VCO synth seems to be able to do, lush pads from either this same analog synth or another one (or even a good sounding VA), cold but elegant digital pads that seem to come mostly from late 80s and early 90s synths, and at least a small handful of ROMpler sounds, which do not have to be perfect recreations because I will definitely be using effects on them. I already own a DX100, which I love and can use for "vanilla" FM sounds. Also, one of these synths has to have a decent synth-action keyboard, and one has to have a good arpeggiator. For various reasons, I am hoping to avoid rack modules in favor of keyboards and desktop modules.

Before the current recession killed my job, I was thinking along the lines of either an SCI Pro-One or Oberheim OB-1 for bass, Korg PolySix for leads and strings, some combination of the Blofeld, TG33 and D550 for digital sounds, and I had not decided on a ROMpler yet. I have heard a lot of good things about the Blofeld's arp so I was planning on using that for the other synths. Alas, this will not happen anytime soon, and, as much as I love the idea of owning those synths, the smell of the test press of my first record I expect will be satisfying as well.

My total budget runs now more towards $2,000-$2,500. I think for around that I should be able to get a DSI Mopho for the bass sounds, a JX10 with programmer for other analog sounds, a JD800 for the digital pads (really tough choice between this and the D50!), and possibly a Yamaha CS6X for ROMpler and for what is supposed to be an excellent arpeggiator.

As for drums, I am holding my breath until whatever Dave Smith and Roger Linn are working on comes out. Then I will decide between that piece, a Jomox or an Elektron. So now I am looking for the best bang-for-the-buck with 16 step sequencer for under $500. I was thinking a combo of the Roland R-8 with the 808 and 909 cards would be cool, supplemented with a Korg ER-1.

Anyways, I thank you all in advance for your help. If this initial post seems like a long read, I still figure it is better than compelling you to ask me more questions in trying to help.

[Yoozer]

You've thought about the sounds, but have you thought about recording and monitoring already, too?

Awesome synths are no good if you have to listen to 'm on $20 PC speakers.

[chordmemories]

yes. and thanks for brining that up. i actually find it a bit sad that so much emphasis is put on one aspect of the signal chain to the detriment of the others. i reckon you can get a lot out of a tg33 with a good channel strip and good converter.

the rest of my setup is a fairly well specified iMac running Logic Studio. I have a pair of Dynaudio BM5As and an Apogee Duet. I opted for the better conversion over more channels, which was a really difficult choice. I am currently trying to decide whether to get a line mixer to tide me over or if I should wait until I can afford the Ensemble. I will do one or the other before getting all of the synths on this list. I started the thread to see if my budget and expectations for synths was realistic so that I can integrate this budget into the larger one that includes outboard, etc.

As for mixing, I think I will probably be ITB until I can find a deal on a used Toft or Oram.

edit: I should also add that as much as i prefer a ratio of 1:1 when it comes to knobs and features, i would rather suffer the programming at the expense of the sound. also before anyone mentions software, i take no sides in that debate. i simply find that staring at a screen allows me to get distracted too easily. coming up with sounds and melodies is a separate process than sequencing, recording and mixing, and i usually try and work on all of it too much when it is all in front of me.

[chordmemories]

no ideas? or is it just that everyone has plans today except me!

[cornutt]

My total budget runs now more towards $2,000-$2,500. I think for around that I should be able to get a DSI Mopho for the bass sounds,

That sounds pretty good, but based on your stated preference for something Oberheim, how about a Matrix-6 or 1000? Not dissing the Mopho at all, but it's a different kind of animal. You coud use the Matrix for a lot of other sounds too.

a JX10 with programmer for other analog sounds,

Good choice, although hunting up one with the programmer may cost more than you planned.

a JD800 for the digital pads (really tough choice between this and the D50!),

For what you want to do, go with the JD800, or a 990 if you'd rather have it in a rack. You won't regret it, and the 800/990 has much better onboard effects than the D50.

and possibly a Yamaha CS6X for ROMpler and for what is supposed to be an excellent arpeggiator.

Good, but kind of pedestrian. If you want to try something different, hunt up a Proteus/3.

[chordmemories]

Thank you so much for the advice!

My interest in the Oberheim was not as much about Oberheim per se as much as trying to get a more balls-y synth that would contrast with the PolySix's strings. So picking out a Pro-One or OB-1 was just a matter of getting a good contrast. If you think there is a one-board solution to my analog desires that keeps me within my budget, or a better solution for bass, go ahead and say so!

Putting the programmer aside completely, do you think the JX10 or the Matrix 6 is harder to program with just the front panel buttons? Current Ebay options suggest they both cost around the same, and that it is just the programmer that may mess up my budget.

I think I have decided on the JD800 then. Thanks.

As for the CS6X, I think I picked it mostly for three reasons 1) it has a really good arp, which the other synths do not (?) 2) it seems like it will be a good controller 3) it has sounds. As good a suggestion as the Proteus seems, "2" is not addressed. If you can think of another $400-600 synth that will take care of all of these things, I would really appreciate it.

A quick explanation of why I can't get rack units for now: I have a very small room for my studio. I will be getting a desk that has 8 rack spaces. I am putting ALL of them aside for outboard gear. I will eventually get another rack for synths, but the only thing that will fit is a face-up rolling rack. The one that I like costs $500. Given my limited budget, I do not want to spend another $500 just yet for more furniture when I have space on my keyboard rack and desktop.

[cornutt]

Putting the programmer aside completely, do you think the JX10 or the Matrix 6 is harder to program with just the front panel buttons? Current Ebay options suggest they both cost around the same, and that it is just the programmer that may mess up my budget.

Haven't used a JX10 myself, so it's hard for me to say. I think I would get tired of trying to program the Matrix-6 from the panel pretty quickly. If you don't mind using your Mac to edit it, you could get M1000X, which I highly recommend (and that has nothing to do with the fact that I wrote it ).

As for the CS6X, I think I picked it mostly for three reasons 1) it has a really good arp, which the other synths do not (?) 2) it seems like it will be a good controller 3) it has sounds. As good a suggestion as the Proteus seems, "2" is not addressed. If you can think of another $400-600 synth that will take care of all of these things, I would really appreciate it.

OK, so it sounds like the Proteus doesn't fit the bill. Given the above, I agree the CS6x is a good choice.

[D-Collector]

Don't forget the JD-800 is far more expensive than a D-50.

[chordmemories]

They go for about $600-700 right now, right? That leaves some room, doesn't it?

My budgeting went like this:
DSI Mopho $400
JD-800 $700
JX10 $600 (there is some guy in LA selling both the JX10 and the PG-800 for $450 combined!)
Which leaves $300-700 for a contoller/ROMpler.

[chordmemories]

If you think the Proetus' soundset is better, maybe I should check out a Proteus Keys or Ensoniq Halo instead?

[downgrade]

in lieu of a JD800 or D50 theres also Korg's Wavestation. Definitely PAD CITY

Bit of menu-diving involved with it though.

[sstaccato]

recommendations can be useful but do you feels best

[chordmemories]

You are right but I have never been able to play with any of these synths. I know that ultimately, the only way to know whether any of these are any good is to just go out and buy them, gain experience, and then if I am unhappy with one, I can try another, but I figure that other people do have firsthand experience and can either guide me away from clunkers or offer something up that I hadn't considered.

I think I definitely sold on the JD800 at this point. I don't like menu diving, and I have come to accept that I might have to deal with it on my budget to get the sounds that I want, but the JD800 fits into my budget and has sliders. Given that both the D50 and the Wavestation are not much fun to use whether in keyboard or rack form, I figure I can add them as racks later on if I so choose, whereas with the JD990 rack, even though it adds some features, I am actually losing functionality compared to the JD800.

As for a workstation, I have been seeing some used Korg Karmas going for cheap and I wonder if it might be worth it to to stretch my budget up a little to snag that instead of the CS6X. I am assuming that all of the neat GEs and arpeggiations can be dumped to MIDI so I can send that signal back out to a better-sounding analog polysynth.

Where I am not sold right now is that I know the JX10 kicks a*s but if I need that and something else for fat basslines, perhaps I should combine the two?

If I were to simple say that I had $1000 for a DCO or VCO-based polysynth that was not VA and that I preferred knobs but didn't require them, and that I needed both deep bass and soaring strings, with decent mod flexibility to take me to the next level of programming, what would you all advise?

[chordmemories]

Yeah I think I am going to go for the JD800 and JX10. If the JX10 is not bass-y enough for me, I will work from there.

I am still feeling a little bit overwhelmed by all of the workstation choices out there.

I don't want to bug everyone by starting a new thread so let me start over:
I make techno and house.
I want a workstation (sequencer not necessary) with flexible arpeggiators, decent onboard ROMpler sounds, a good-feeling keyboard, and decent synthesis capabilites which offer sounds I cannot get in the above-mentioned synths.
Budget is less than $1000.

So far I have com up with:
Alesis Fusion
E-Mu Proteus Keys
Ensoniq Halo
Kawai K5000
Korg Karma
Korg Z1 (ok so no ROMpler sounds but everything else?)
Roland XP60
(Something else from Roland I can't remember)
Yamaha CS6x
Yamaha EX5

Is there anything missing from this list? What do you think?

Thanks

[Hugo76]

What about the Korg Triton? Too expensive? Looking at the alternatives, I'd go for a Triton instead. Remember it has sampling, sequencing, the option for the MOSS board + Karma software.