Vintage Synth Explorer Forums

Hm... I think you may have missed by point. I'm saying that an upgradeable system is an added product offering, not a replacement for either full sized keyboards, nor mini keys.

Besides, the MicroKorg wasn't released to be a side by side "live performance" version of the MS2000 (at least I don't think so). The MicroKorg was released a couple of years after the MS2000 and if I'm not mistaken, it was more of an attempt to just recycle and re-release the MS2000 sound engine in a more affordable and portable package (the same reason they released the Radias -- to just recycle the Oasys MMT engine with an interface of a synth that sold better -- the MS2000). In fact, they did it yet again by re-releasing the MMT engine in the MicroKorg XL.

Anyway, the MS2000 has long since been discontinued, but the MicroKorg is still for sale. That means that Korg is losing money because people who have gotten tired of their MicroKorgs are actually buying used MS2000s instead (or buying from a different manufacturer altogether). It's a lost opportunity if you ask me.

Same story with the Micron. The Micron is still for sale isn't it? And the Ion has been discontinued. Right now, because people are unhappy with their Microns, they are looking to buy other synths instead of just buying a "upgrade". The original post of this thread is proof that Alesis is losing out on the opportunity. Even if the OP bought an Ion, the money would be going into someone else's pocket, not Alesis'.

My recommendation for the OP is an ION, MS2000, JP-8000, or Nord Lead 2.

Based on these criteria, Akai AX80.

MIDI, well under $800, durable AFAIK, analog, polyphonic, sweet interface. That's my dream synth right now (it beats my #2, JX8p, based on the interface).

just letting you all know, i eventually bought a juno 106 with a bad voice chip i'm going to repair with acetone method for 355. I'm currently selling my DX7 for more than I got it. so far, the 106 is aweosme and much more suited for me then the dx7, but the voice chip not fixed yet kills it for me when it heats up...

Kidney05 wrote: musts:
-midi compatability
-under 800 (but the lower the better)
-durable (no juno 106 voice chip nonsense)

Congrats on the purchase.
It sounds like you've ended up going in a totally different direction though.

RD9 wrote:Anyway, the MS2000 has long since been discontinued, but the MicroKorg is still for sale. That means that Korg is losing money because people who have gotten tired of their MicroKorgs are actually buying used MS2000s instead (or buying from a different manufacturer altogether). It's a lost opportunity if you ask me.

You don't understand the product life cycle of an instrument at all. Korg are making a nice amount of money because the Microkorg is still selling long after the R&D costs have been recouped, so whatever they get is profit now, after materials and labour. The MS2000 wasn't selling as well as it had been so the product was taken off the market and replaced by the Radias.

The amount of people who buy a new Microkorg and then buy a used MS2000 isn't enough for Korg to keep the MS2000 on the shelves. Most stores wouldn't have the shelf space for both the MS2000 and Radias anyway so they'd be cannibalising their own sales anyway. Don't forget that Korg are a company that sells to shops, not to consumers.

RD9 wrote:

Kidney05 wrote: musts:
-midi compatability
-under 800 (but the lower the better)
-durable (no juno 106 voice chip nonsense)

Congrats on the purchase.
It sounds like you've ended up going in a totally different direction though.

this was before i heard about the acetone method. i thought i would be spending all my time/ money fixing chips. turns out, it's just a pain to desolder them, but they recover quite well with the help of the acetone taking away the covering.

Stab Frenzy wrote:

RD9 wrote:Anyway, the MS2000 has long since been discontinued, but the MicroKorg is still for sale. That means that Korg is losing money because people who have gotten tired of their MicroKorgs are actually buying used MS2000s instead (or buying from a different manufacturer altogether). It's a lost opportunity if you ask me.

You don't understand the product life cycle of an instrument at all. Korg are making a nice amount of money because the Microkorg is still selling long after the R&D costs have been recouped, so whatever they get is profit now, after materials and labour. The MS2000 wasn't selling as well as it had been so the product was taken off the market and replaced by the Radias.

The amount of people who buy a new Microkorg and then buy a used MS2000 isn't enough for Korg to keep the MS2000 on the shelves. Most stores wouldn't have the shelf space for both the MS2000 and Radias anyway so they'd be cannibalising their own sales anyway. Don't forget that Korg are a company that sells to shops, not to consumers.

I hope you didn't just take me literally when I said "losing money". It's obvious that Korg was/is making money off the MicroKorg, but the product lifecycle of the MK has nothing to do with my point at all. They've certainly made a pretty penny way beyond the R&D costs of that thing and will continue to do so. But I'm talking about the fact that without the MS2000 and Radias, it leaves a void in the middle-tier market where Korg has currently nothing good to offer. The best they have right now is the X50 and PS60, which are no replacements for the MS2000 or Radias. So if you're a synth buyer in the $1000-1500 range, there's basically nothing good in Korg's lineup. Buyers who have $1000-1500 to spend are either going to buy a used MS2000 or Radias, if they're looking at Korg at all, or more likely look at another brand or another type of synth altogether. That's what I meant about "losing money." I didn't mean Korg was losing money as whole, just losing in the mid-tier market. They continue to make a killing in other segments filled by the Kaossilator, MicroKorg/XL.

Anyway, by the looks of it, the corporate world sees the mid-tier VA polysynth market between $1000-2000 USD as currently a bad and risky market to be in, which is probably why everything that's coming out is cheaper, like the GAIA, X5, PS60, all under $1000. But lots of users like me will continue to spend $1000-2000 on something. Whether it's a new synth or an old synth depends. But all I know for sure is that it won't go to Korg right now.

If I had to guess which synth manufacturers dominate that middle tier, it's probably Nord and Moog.

Um... at the moment, you can still buy a Radias new. Reduced pricing yes, but still new. Not the keyboard version, but them most people weren't buying the keyboard version.

Ashe37 wrote:Um... at the moment, you can still buy a Radias new.

Exactly. And the fact that it's reduced means there is a replacement coming in the next six months. Hopefully it's not ugly.

Stab Frenzy wrote:

Ashe37 wrote:Um... at the moment, you can still buy a Radias new.

Exactly. And the fact that it's reduced means there is a replacement coming in the next six months. Hopefully it's not ugly.

I hope it looks like an MS20.

why the h**l would you want a VA/digital to look like an MS-20?

they already tried that w/ the Legacy controller...t'was a bad, sorry joke.

Stab Frenzy wrote:

Ashe37 wrote:Um... at the moment, you can still buy a Radias new.

Exactly. And the fact that it's reduced means there is a replacement coming in the next six months. Hopefully it's not ugly.

And doesn't have minikeys...

shaft9000 wrote:why the h**l would you want a VA/digital to look like an MS-20?

they already tried that w/ the Legacy controller...t'was a bad, sorry joke.

Not literally like the MS20. Just the overall design aesthetic. Matte black/grey finish and white text, no silly light show, no chrome trim, that kind of thing.

Kidney05 wrote:

RD9 wrote:

Kidney05 wrote: musts:
-midi compatability
-under 800 (but the lower the better)
-durable (no juno 106 voice chip nonsense)

Congrats on the purchase.
It sounds like you've ended up going in a totally different direction though.

this was before i heard about the acetone method. i thought i would be spending all my time/ money fixing chips. turns out, it's just a pain to desolder them, but they recover quite well with the help of the acetone taking away the covering.

Usually recover and not always forever. If you have the extra cash new voice chips are available for about $45. If you are going to desolder and resolder them back in, it might be an option to consider. That being said, I will be trying the acetone method on a friend's 106 shorty. He doesn't have the spare $270.

Sir Nose wrote:

Kidney05 wrote:

RD9 wrote: Congrats on the purchase.
It sounds like you've ended up going in a totally different direction though.

this was before i heard about the acetone method. i thought i would be spending all my time/ money fixing chips. turns out, it's just a pain to desolder them, but they recover quite well with the help of the acetone taking away the covering.

Usually recover and not always forever. If you have the extra cash new voice chips are available for about $45. If you are going to desolder and resolder them back in, it might be an option to consider. That being said, I will be trying the acetone method on a friend's 106 shorty. He doesn't have the spare $270.

you're taking about the synth spa?

that guy will replace all of them for 135 and free shipping he says. half of 270.