Beginner Synth (Under $700)

[TYPHY]

I've never had a synthesizer and is looking for my first one.
I like to make Hip Hop, R&B, and Dance remixes.
I know very little about synthesis but is willing to learn.
I own Absynth5 and Massive already but only use presets because I hate trying to learn with the interface, having to twist and turns knobs on the computer with a mouse is very annoying and discourages me to try to learn. However, I did order the Absynth 3 tutorial DVD because I heard it teaches and covers ALOT about synthesis. With that said, I want to buy my first synthesizer that is fairly easy to learn and program. Here are some choices I've been looking at:

Radias R (I see there are different versions of these? What are the differences?)


Korg R3


MicroKorg XL (it's better than the original MicroKorg I assume)


GAIA SH 01


Novation Ultranova


Those are the 4 I'm looking at because they have many knobs and are user friendly, or so I've heard.
A rack would be okay too because I have a 61 Axiom keyboard.
I just want one that is easy to learn to program and has great sounds.
I'm not looking for any older synths, I don't like to buy used equipment.. I prefer new.
I would like to tweak and turn knobs, it looks like a lot of fun.
I like pads, leads, and basses.. which is basically everything right? lol

[Ashe37]

Radias R (I see there are different versions of these? What are the differences?)

There's a keyboard version and a rack version.

Korg R3


MicroKorg XL (it's better than the original MicroKorg I assume)

These two are the same sound engine (1/3rd of a RADIAS) but different interfaces. Both are bi-timbral (two timbres).

GAIA SH 01

Great UI for learning synthesis. Not so great synth engine. Monotimbral.

Novation Ultranova

Really nice synth engine, interesting controls, monotimbral.

Those are the 4 I'm looking at because they have many knobs and are user friendly, or so I've heard.
A rack would be okay too because I have a 61 Axiom keyboard.
I just want one that is easy to learn to program and has great sounds.
I'm not looking for any older synths, I don't like to buy used equipment.. I prefer new.
I would like to tweak and turn knobs, it looks like a lot of fun.
I like pads, leads, and basses.. which is basically everything right? lol

Okay, between the ones you have listed...

The RADIAS has the best UI (knobs all over the place, not quite one knob per function but close), more polyphony than the others (excepting the supposed polyphony of the GAIA, which is fairly useless) and has four separate timbres (if you don't know what that means, think of it as four separate sounds or 'instruments' playable by MIDI). It would be my first choice. (Roomate/bandmate has one)

The Ultranova would be a second choice because it has second polyphony, and a very flexible sound engine.... just it is monotimbral so its 18 voices can go to waste.

The R3 has full size keys and the ring LEDs on the encoders show the relative settings for each item as you flip through the menus. Nice little keyboard package and convenient. (Roomate/bandmate has one and it was his first synth, it is one of the reasons he got a RADIAS, it uses the same synth architecture)

The Microkorg XL has tiny keys, less knobs, no LEDS that show position... I don't see why you'd get this over the R3.

The GAIA has a great 'sliders and knobs for everything' UI that is good for learning synthesis. Once you learn tho, the sound engine is not so great (thin even compared to the RADIAS/R3/MicrokorgXL, which is saying something), monotimbral (at least for the synth engine) plus the synth engine is actually somewhat limited (no modulation matrix, sync turns it into a monosynth) and there's no way of knowing what the sliders are set for when you call up a patch. No names for the patches (no display) so you'd better remember what you put in each slot. These limits on the synth aren't very limiting compared with vintage synthesizers (like the Juno-106 and jupiters after which it is modeled) but are limiting and potential frustrations for someone just learning synthesis when compared to the other synths you are looking at.

Also, the first four synths also have manufacturer-supplied editor/librarian software. I can't vouch for the software for the Ultranova, but the RADIAS/R3/MkXL librarian is well designed and organized and is easy to use.

[TYPHY]

So I understand that the GAIA has a good learning curve for synthesis but the sounds are not that great? Between the R3 and XL, the R3 wins. But for a few more hundred, the Radias R is the winner. I was told in another forum that I should get the GAIA because the Radias, though the better synth out of all, would be overwhelming for a beginner like me to learn on. This is so hard to decide, I don't live by a GC for me to play with any of these so I'll have to buy before play.


What do you think of the the Slim Phatty?
http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.c ... KgodHFawwA

How hard would it be to learn synthesis on this baby ^

edit:
Well... I guess I won't going with the Slim Phatty because it's monophonic.
I like pads alot.. I usually like to add pads to my beats for fullness because I don't always like to use strings, but I'm a sucker for dope pads for R&B type beats. I guess the Slim is mostly for basses and leads?

[Ashe37]

So I understand that the GAIA has a good learning curve for synthesis but the sounds are not that great? Between the R3 and XL, the R3 wins. But for a few more hundred, the Radias R is the winner. I was told in another forum that I should get the GAIA because the Radias, though the better synth out of all, would be overwhelming for a beginner like me to learn on. This is so hard to decide, I don't live by a GC for me to play with any of these so I'll have to buy before play.

GAIA is great learning curve wise, but other than it having the supersaw, it has the limitations of a twenty year old analog. You'd eventually reach a limit to what you can do with it. The RADIAS would be a bit overwhelming... maybe. It is well laid out and the controls are straightforward, and things like the step sequencers, RPRR (knob motion recording) and the modulation matrix give you somewhere to go with it.

What do you think of the the Slim Phatty?
http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.c ... KgodHFawwA

How hard would it be to learn synthesis on this baby ^

edit:
Well... I guess I won't going with the Slim Phatty because it's monophonic.
I like pads alot.. I usually like to add pads to my beats for fullness because I don't always like to use strings, but I'm a sucker for dope pads for R&B type beats. I guess the Slim is mostly for basses and leads?

Yep, you got that on your first try.

[filippov]

Don't get the R3 or XL if your going to program. I bought myself a R3 as my first synth and i hated it's virtual patch system more than anything else! it really discouraged me. now i'm selling it, or at least, trying to).
if i were you, i would go with the radias, as it's really hands on, and quite powerful as well.

[shaft9000]

+1 for radias

i have an ultranova and it is indeed a big improvement for the novation va sound...but the abbreviations won't make much sense in the display, until you learn what the terms are.
so the radias is very good in this respect - very similar to an ms2000 interface which is sort of the perfect learner's VA. the radias just has a few more options and voices, mostly. stick to the osc and filter sections and notice how the LFOs and EGs affect them. everything else is gravy you can mess with at your leisure later on.

[meatballfulton]

I was told in another forum that I should get the GAIA because the Radias, though the better synth out of all, would be overwhelming for a beginner like me to learn on.

That's ridiculous. Just because it has more features doesn't mean you have to use them all

The Radias is actually a great beginner synth because there is plenty to grow into.

[Ashe37]

Don't get the R3 or XL if your going to program. I bought myself a R3 as my first synth and i hated it's virtual patch system more than anything else! it really discouraged me. now i'm selling it, or at least, trying to).
if i were you, i would go with the radias, as it's really hands on, and quite powerful as well.

uhm...

the virtual patch system is how pretty much everything implements a mod matrix these days. Working with it in the editor is about as straightforward as it gets....

[Stab Frenzy]

Another vote for the Radias.

[TYPHY]

Ok, I see everyone is rooting for the Radias R. However, my choices have boiled down to the Radias R and the Slim Phatty. Even though the SP is mono... I am too impressed by the sound demos I've heard. I figured having a analog synth in my arsenal will never be a regret. How is the learning curve on this synth?

As for pads, I'm hoping Absynth will be a good VST for that area, I'll just have to put out the time to learn it as best I can. I've ordered the Absynth 3 DVD which supposedly covers ALOT of ground for synthesis. Hopefully, that will set me straight for pad sounds. Does anybody use Absynth, too? How are they for pads? I mainly make hiphop and r&b.

[Elandroth]

RADIAS Rack plus some basic MIDI keyboard.

Or just get the key version. But from the choices, go RADIAS. You may be like "wow... lots of stuff, no idea!" when you start, and I was too at first (started on a Nord Lead 2X), but you will pick it up over time and be glad that you have a full featured machine to grow into.


Slim Phatty sounds really effin awesome and incredibly easy to learn and use, but it is certainly the less versatile machine of the two. It's not a bad choice, but you will probably find yourself wanting an additional synth with more options sooner than you may think (unless you re-embrace software synthesis to cover your gaps). You're right that you won't regret it, though.


And I know you don't like used, but man... you can find some -incredible- deals on synths sometimes on craigslist. When you first start out though it's hard to know what to look for and how to make sure what you're buying works 100%, but if you get into synthin' you may want to reconsider your anti-used policy!

[AnalogKid]

In my opinion, the best synth for under $700 is a used Alesis Ion. The Ion is the best sounding VA ever created. It's analog reproduction is second to none. It's loaded with knobs for hands on programming. The Ion has 8-voice polyphony with 3 oscillators per voice, and is 4-part multi-timbral. Yup, with controls for three separate oscillators per voice, unlike the majority of synths that have one or two. You can find Ions for less than $700. I prefer the sounds and programming capabilities of the Ion to other synths costing much more. I will NEVER sell my Ion. If you want a synth that is good for beginners and experts alike, find an Alesis Ion.

[ninja6485]

In my opinion, the best synth for under $700 is a used Alesis Ion. The Ion is the best sounding VA ever created. It's analog reproduction is second to none. It's loaded with knobs for hands on programming. The Ion has 8-voice polyphony with 3 oscillators per voice, and is 4-part multi-timbral. Yup, with controls for three separate oscillators per voice, unlike the majority of synths that have one or two. You can find Ions for less than $700. I prefer the sounds and programming capabilities of the Ion to other synths costing much more. I will NEVER sell my Ion. If you want a synth that is good for beginners and experts alike, find an Alesis Ion.

Ok, I see everyone is rooting for the Radias R. However, my choices have boiled down to the Radias R and the Slim Phatty. Even though the SP is mono... I am too impressed by the sound demos I've heard. I figured having a analog synth in my arsenal will never be a regret. How is the learning curve on this synth?

As for pads, I'm hoping Absynth will be a good VST for that area, I'll just have to put out the time to learn it as best I can. I've ordered the Absynth 3 DVD which supposedly covers ALOT of ground for synthesis. Hopefully, that will set me straight for pad sounds. Does anybody use Absynth, too? How are they for pads? I mainly make hiphop and r&b.

you might regret the slim phatty...it's analogness doesn't really lend it any actual merit in and of itself. i would personally go for some other type of monosynth instead. i keep playing the little phatty in stores and i'm just not impressed, but each time i go back thinking "ooh, moog! new analog monosynth!" i want to like it so bad, but i just don't. maybe you will, who knows...that being said, the radias was my first synth and it was an excelent first synth. i used it alone for years. hip hop without digs and samplers is like thrashmetal with drum machines. you can do it, but hwhy?

[AnalogKid]

Read the reviews on the Alesis Ion:

Electronic Musician: "The range of sounds you can achieve with the Ion is simply vast. You could easily pay twice as much for a synth that doesn't have this level of programmability."

Sound on Sound: "I was struck by how fat and 'American' the Ion sounds when compared to other modelled analogues I own. And its bass can be as warm or as cutting as the best of my analogue monosynths too — always a good test. It may be modelled analogue, but carefully audition a few of its patches and then tell me whether you care!"

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep03/a ... sision.htm

http://emusician.com/elecinstruments/emusic_alesision/

[shaft9000]

that's all good and well, but he's trying to learn how to program.
Selecting from (dubious) models of Moog filter vs JP8 filter vs OB filters, or the horrible arpeggiator, NO sequencer and terrible FX implementation on the ion is not going to help him to learn how to use them very well; at least until he knows what each section should do regardless of options.

subjective assessments of sound quality does not necessarily = subjective ease of use