sample sequencer needed

[Tymus]

Hi,

Due to recent events I want to change my current rig, which consits out of hardware only.

I've been using my ESX live and in the studio and I'm more and more convinced of using samples for any type of percussion (except kicks).

However, the esx has some minor flaws. Therefore I would like get an "upgrade". The idea is to put a lot of samples in the device, tweak them, sequencing them and sequencing my current drumcomputer with the same device. Just like i'm doing now with the esx but I want more tracks per pattern and more soundediting options. I had a RS7k but that was not my friend.

Now I'm looking at an MC-909 or Octatrack but can't decide.

style of music: techno, hardcore, ...

[balma]

The MC 909 offers an extensive live performance surface. It´s really a handy tool for beat sequencing and composition, and it can assume the task of a drummachine. The pattern map function is really awesome, and one of the best methods to compose dance music based on patterns. You can create multiple versions of a single pattern and create a whole song with them, without modifying the original pattern. Then, store each version on triggers and recall them during live performance. The user interface is really great.

The memory capabilities for samples is c**p (like the Electribe ESX-1). 16 Mb. But it can be expanded.

The synthesis options are the classic for the Roland romplers of its era. Cheesy waveforms, basic LFO, and ADSR functions, 4 layers per patch, poly 64.

I had all the groovebox models, obviously this one is the best of the family. I used one during 3 years, but some guy came with $800 and I had to sell it. I´ve been thinking on getting one again, since the pattern mapping function is f**k awesome.

[Tymus]

Thanks for the info!

I do have some questions left:

Is it easy to load your own samples into it?

How are the fx? On the ESX there are quite a few but most of them are not usefull due to crappyness.

Can I select like a MIDI track to control my external drumkick and one for a synthesizer?

And how does the synthesis of the samples go? Meaning, how much can I tweak them?

I want to get to this combo:

MC-909 or Octatrack - ESX - XBase09 - tb303 - fr-revolution - A-station - virus b

Would trade in my xbase999 and nord lead 1 kb for mc or octa and virus b

[balma]

It provides a nice USB interface, so you can organize the samples on a PC and then load them into the MC909.

It can also sample using optical cable.

the synthesis capabilities are very similar to the Fantom series. It does not have any special feature. The proposal is to use 4 waveforms to create the patches and add some effects to them. there are no ring or hardsync or wathever.... pitch, amp, filter, panning, vol, etc for each layer, and combine them to create a patch-.

The ESX uses the sample database to create the sounds. Tweaks are stored in the pattern, not in the patches. IT does not have patch banks. The MC909 has around 900 presets (cheesy) and 256 user locations. You recall the sounds to create patterns, using these patches.


There´s no variphrase on the MC909. So samples cannot behave as the internal waveforms. They can be looped or stretched, but not formatted to be manipulated on a chromatic scale like a Vsynth....Possibilities are very similar to the ones found on the ESX.

Effects goes very far from the ones found on the ESX. It has around 50 different effects. I really loved the ISOLATOR and the SLICER effects. You can use a delay, reverb and a master effect per pattern, not per patch. However, you can store the same pattern several times with several versions of the effects,

IMO, the best features of the MC series is the PATTERN SET map. these are 50 maps of 16 locations each one. Tweak a pattern, change the effects, vol, pan, patch assign, pitch, etc of each track, hold shift and select one location, and the pattern is stored with those specific settings on the selected trigger. MAke some changes again, and then, store it on the next location. This flexible way to create multiple versions of the same pattern, is gold for someone used to compose music using short patterns.

[Tymus]

Ok, fair enough. Sounds like what Im looking for, especially since I realized that the Octatrack had only 8tracks per pattern, which wouldnt suffice for me and I tend to use same patterns bur with light differences and what I make is very 4/4 minded.

You have an ESX I see. I've set my ESX so it sends out MIDI- to my xbase09 and use the 'no sample' sample ( sounds stupid but you know what I mean) so it generates no kick, can you dosomething similar with the mc909?

Perhaps a dumb question, but I assume that sequencing a synth like a-station or virus is as easy as on the ESX?

[balma]

Yes, it can sequence other gear easily. the sequencer is linear based, 16 tracks, wich can send MIDI INT, EXT and BOTH.

[Tymus]

Argh, just cant make up my mind about this... Ive been checking some vids on the octatrack, it can do some really cool stuff, like the lfo making and such but the mc909 appears to be more suited for how I work

[somebedroomdj]

I can't say anything about the Octatrack, having never touched one yet (as much as I want to!). But I own quite a few groovebox samplers and I have to say that the 909 is my favorite by far. As I see it:

Pro-
--Big screen makes editing a piece of cake
--16 track sequencing means you can run onboard sounds and plenty of tracks for other gear.
--Any sample can be saved into user memory for instant access and can be fully manipulated as any other patch (not sure if I'm misreading the above comment about no chromatic playing but samples can be played across the keyboard)
--2 MFX units that are typical Roland quality and quite editable (blows the ESX effects out of the water, imo)
--Autochop works very well and it's only a couple of button pushes from there to automatically create and store a drum kit from it.
--Separate compressor means you don't have to use up one of your effects to, say, beef up your drums
--Personally, I like a lot of the onboard sounds. There is, without a doubt, plenty of cheese, but there are some great pads, basses and drums. Mine came with the SRX-5 card, so that definitely helps. It's all quite editable if you delve in.
--Storage and transfer - You can install up to 256mb ram, plus the 16mb onboard memory. Smartmedia is not the best media but at least you can back up the full session memory. And I haven't tried it yet, but I hear that the SM-SD adapter does work. USB file transfer is awesome! I just keep it hooked up to my PC at all times and I have easy access to whatever I need.
--Digital optical and coax ins and outs come standard, as well as two extra sets of stereo outs. I remember paying through the nose to get an expansion board for my SP-808 for all of these things.
--I really like the sample machine gun feature, it can really do a number on a drum break.

Con-
--It's a bit fiddly to keep track of exactly what needs to be saved and where to make sure that your pattern sounds the same the next time you load it up. The 16mb onboard is always there, but it will fill up quickly. The 256mb ram is ample, but this needs to be backed up to Smartmedia or the PC before you power down each time.
--The pads are prone to wearing out easily. In fact, I bought mine with most of them not working. But I hook it up to master keyboard any way so it doesn't bother me. Other than that, it's actually a very sturdy box.
--The arppegiator is highly editable but I'll be damned if I can get my head around it. It could just be that I need more RTFM time, but I've tried and not gotten very far with it.
--As easy as the drum kits are to create with autochop, each one can only have up to 16 slices. Also, each slice takes up a sample slot (you get 2000 onboard) and it can quickly become a nightmare trying to find a specific sample in the list. The ESX, on the other hand, can store an entire drum kit in one sample slot and then you just scroll through the slices to find a specific drum hit.

There's much more I could say about this thing (and I probably will) but my old lady needs the computer to do something very important on her Farmville or something or other and is very persistent in letting me know about it. I will be back. lol

[Tymus]

thanks for the info!! I've been waiting tho to hear the rest of your story


pretty hard to find one in Europe who has a maxed out memory, latest OS and in decent shape..

[GooGoo]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roland-MC-909-/180955594935?

[Re-Member]

the synthesis capabilities are very similar to the Fantom series. It does not have any special feature. The proposal is to use 4 waveforms to create the patches and add some effects to them. there are no ring or hardsync or wathever.... pitch, amp, filter, panning, vol, etc for each layer, and combine them to create a patch-.

If the MC-909 engine is anything like the MC-505, it should have ring mod. On the MC-505, it's buried in a parameter called Structure Type which is in Common Settings. The manual should have a list of how each tone mixes into each other based on each Type. There's also feature called FXM (Frequency Cross Modulation) that adds a lot to the sonic pallet.

[somebedroomdj]

thanks for the info!! I've been waiting tho to hear the rest of your story


pretty hard to find one in Europe who has a maxed out memory, latest OS and in decent shape..

As you wish! Well, the damsel made it into her Farmville in time, saved the crops or whatever the bloody h**l she needed to do and everybody lived happily ever after. The hero of our story was sidetracked on Ye Olde Ebay looking at piece after piece of outdated electronic music equipment but his quest did eventually lead him back to the wellspring of synth knowledge. It was then that he realized there was unfinished business, at which point, he said:

"First, I wouldn't worry about finding one that is maxed and updated as these are very, very simple procedures. The 256mb ram that you need can be found on Ebay for under $20 easily and you just have to remove the back of the case and pop it in. No need to disconnect anything inside or move any of the boards around. Same with the SRX cards if you pick one up, just pop the back off and snap it in. And the update is a breeze if you have a Smartmedia card."

But anyway, I guess I just need to say that I LOVE my 909. I've been through so many samplers and none of them really hit on all cylinders for me until I got it. My first piece of serious gear (relative term, I suppose) was an MC-307 and I always wished it had sampling. And well, here it is. Everything I loved and got very used to from the 307 plus a complex and well-integrated sampler, multiple outs, USB connectivity, huge screen, vastly improved sound engine and twice the tracks for sequencing. Think if it as the logical conclusion of Roland's groovebox line and, though it does have it's quirks/bugs/whatever, it is a beast.

And now if I take off the rose tinted glasses.. I don't believe there ever was a fix for the sustain issue, meaning that if you have a pattern going and there are effects being used, there is not a smooth transition when you change over to another pattern. The effects will just drop out. For me it is not so much of an issue just because of the way I like to work with it. I will basically create a pattern, midi and onboard sounds together, and just capture loops in my SP-808 or SP-505. Then build something on one of those machines or even start a new pattern and trigger the loops I just captured that way. But I can definitely see where this sustain issue could be a dealbreaker for people using song mode on the 909 for everything.

I already mentioned it above but I'll say it again here: It can be a PITA to be sure you've saved everything and saved it in the right place. More than once I have been working on something that I thought grooved nicely, nodding along to it for hours, tweaking and adding layers. Only to open it up the next time I power on and find that that bassline that made the whole thing mesh just right is now a flat, lifeless stock sound. Or maybe the breakbeat I took so long to hone into the perfect drum kit for the song is no where to be found. Now, ultimately, this is probably down to me overlooking something and is not the machine's fault at all really, but I wish that, as far as saving your work is concerned, it had the simplicity of my ESX: hit write and your pattern, effects settings and every minute tweak you've made to your samples is saved and those tweaks you've made have no bearing whatsoever on the 5 other patterns you may have used that same sample in.

Alllllll of that being said and no matter how in love I am with my 909, I'm very curious to try an RS-7000 and all of the research I've done on it over years (without ever actually laying hands on one, mind you) would indicate that it is certainly not to be overlooked. It's definitely on my "to buy" list. So I have to ask, exactly what do you find lacking in it that you are hoping to find in another machine?

[somebedroomdj]

If the MC-909 engine is anything like the MC-505, it should have ring mod. On the MC-505, it's buried in a parameter called Structure Type which is in Common Settings. The manual should have a list of how each tone mixes into each other based on each Type. There's also feature called FXM (Frequency Cross Modulation) that adds a lot to the sonic pallet.

You are correct sir, all of the things you've mentioned are present on the 909. And I forgot to mention it above but, since we're talking about it's synthesis capabilities, it has a cool feature where it gradually morphs between the 8 different types of waves for the LFO. Also, Unison and Random Modify can yield some great results.

[Tymus]

I've been trying to find some vids on the synthesis possibilities, no succes however. Nonetheless, others vids do give me a nice idea of these, if offcourse its not an another synth hooked via MIDI that I hear in those.

Ive checked that ebay add, but Im not too fond of ebay if I cant go and pick it up, at least not for synths and such.

I can work around the maxed out, as mentioned and installing one myself, but the OS seems rather tricky, Ive read about mc909's that no longer start up properly and such..

What does intrigue me or even scare me, is the fact that you have to save it in the right place?? Ive had gear before where I had to save every action when wanted because a change of pattern also means no save at all, so that is okay, but what you mean with the right place??

[Stab Frenzy]

The Octatrack blows the 909 out of the water, the only reason nobody in this thread has said that is because none of them have used one.

Get the Octatrack.