Then..... what soft sound the nearest to a Roland jupiter 8?

[theundertakermc]

i heard some people saying that the arturia jupiter 8v doesn't even come close to the real thing .... then my question is ...... What does ? is there any vsti that really sounds close to a real Jupiter 8 ? those things are so expensive and rare , used to have a jupiter 6 as an alternative but really wanted the jupiter 8 sounds .....any ideas guys ?

[shaft9000]

sadly, the answer is none.
i've been down the VST 'emulation' road and they're fine for quick jobs, but not satisfying like the real thing. the real things sell for big bucks for good reason.

you're asking a digital synth (or any VST) w/ DGO's, digital filter. LFO's, EG's and "VCA" to sound like a semi-discrete analog (JP-8).
that's a big reason we'll never get software to sound just like hardware, especially vintage hardware.
trying to make logic circuits going thru D/A to sound like multiple discrete analog circuits is wishful thinking, to say the least. "Virtual Analog" is still entirely digital; it's not even hybrid which is still a long ways from the JP-8 mark.
that's why this site exists...things just are what they are and no amount of marketing or inexperience can change this.

[Yoozer]

sadly, the answer is none.

Yet.

that's a big reason we'll never get software to sound just like hardware, especially vintage hardware.

The weakest part in the emulation chain is not the audio interface. Not the code. Not the CPU.

It's your ears.

Once you can no longer hear the difference - and that day only gets closer and closer - the problem's solved. Your ears eventually just give up. They've given up already on the higher frequencies with age. They're imperfect and easily influenced by mood.

The looks? No. Anyone can rebuild a steel case with potmeters and sliders, that's not difficult. The resolution of said meters? Not a problem either; both smoothing and high resolution solve that problem (and lots of synths with potmeter/slider scanning of that time didn't have a high resolution). The feeling? Not an issue either; sliders can be made with any resistance you want.

If you look at a really high-end reverb such as a Bricasti you see that they have the luxury of putting all and every resource towards a single purpose - executing a single, optimized, built-for-purpose algorithm. It'll take you a longer time if you have to wait for desktop computing power to catch up, but you'll get there eventually. A monophonic synth that'd drain your top of the line octo-core workstation for 90% is simply not realistic for practical purposes; but just give Moore's Law a bit more time.

[shaft9000]

Yoozer, have you been drinking??

[nSCOURGE]

Well, the Juno60 may not be a Jupiter 8, but the TAL-U-NO-62 seems spot on, as far as I can discern from the comparison demos.

So, software is already progressing along an axis where subjective differences will become increasingly marginal.

As for Moore's law, this could be better exploited by offloading audio processing tasks to GPUs(via NVIDIA's CUDA, for ex) whose evolution is outpacing that of CPUs.

GPUs are also more attractive in terms of upgradability as their system compatibility standards change far less frequently than CPUs(socket formats, etc), and retail market saturation/turnover ensures low prices for superceded generations(unlike CPUs).

Plus, installing a graphic card is a relatively transparent process, even for those without technical savvy.

And, to give us a hint of the potential benefits:

http://koonlab.com/CUDA_RealFIR/CUDA%20Real%20FIR.html

http://www.acusticaudio.net/modules.php ... sc&start=0

http://synthmaker.co.uk/forum/viewtopic ... a&start=15

[meatballfulton]

i heard some people saying that the arturia jupiter 8v doesn't even come close to the real thing ....any ideas guys ?

Try out the JP8V demo for a while. There's no limitations other than you can't save your patches and it has only a few factory presets but you can use it forever if you like. Then decide if it's good enough for you.

[SWAN]

double

[SWAN]

Theres nothing else specific to a JP8 (apart from an old so-so emulation form Roland in their variOS system) but apparently the Poly-Ana is pretty good for general authentic analogue emulations...And I rate the Way Out Ware timewARP highly as far as analogue emulations go...

I also think the www.synthsquad.com looks to be very tasty and its component modeled on analogue classics...

That said even the best analogue emulations (including SCOPE synths) have a 'cleanness' and brightness compared to real analogue - and dont have the same presence or power. You could almost describe VA as 'shiny and hollow' whereas real analogue tends to be more 'dull and thick'...although of course I see that that is very subjective and unscientific. However that is my experience and personal thoughts on the matter - and Ive tried almost every plugin synth looking for that elusive analogue quality - mainly because Ive trying to avoid spending thousands on classic analogue gear. Anyways after all that testing - at the moment - Im saving my money for a OB8 or a P5.

For bass however - Trilogy and the upcoming Trillian will give analogue monosynths a run for their money on bass sounds (and be considerably more versatile) although of course only for basic sounds - as whilst you have analogue multisamples - you still get a digital filter and modulation...

[multipackvitamin]

:)

[synth3tik]

Honestly look at your cost to benefit ratio. Are the parts that you would be recording require a true JP-8 sound? Chances are you don't really need a JP-8.

If you are doing a side by side test, then you could say that they are not the same, however when getting a JP-8ish sound it works really well. Just through some EQ on it or many PSP Vintage Warmer and you'll be fine.

[lostyetfound]

you're asking a digital synth (or any VST) w/ DGO's, digital filter. LFO's, EG's and "VCA" to sound like a semi-discrete analog (JP-8).
that's a big reason we'll never get software to sound just like hardware, especially vintage hardware.

I disagree, I think digital could get so close as it not to matter, eventually.

If this is off topic, sorry, but a train of thought has just been triggered.

It is said that digital can't ever 100% emulate analogue. Agreed.

However, I have a question, and this is where I could be shot down in flames for being stupid.

If I listen to a CD, which has a JP8 playing on it, am I listening to analogue or digital? Nearly all the times we hear analogue synths now, they're coming from a digital source (CD / MP3 etc).

If that sound that is coming off a CD and through my hi-fi amp sounds like a Jupiter 8, then surely, making something purely digital which sounds like that is possible. After all, purely digital equipment is making Jupiter 8 sounds in this scenario.

At the end of the day, the CD is "1" and "0"'s. That Jupiter sound is encoded in "1" and "0" onto the CD. The DAC converts these into sound.

So a PC / Digital synth works in "1" and "0" too, so surely there is a chance that one day someone can make either make that sound too? Maybe there would be a need to put some "fuzzy logic" in for analog anomalies, but either way...

Or am I just a nutter ?

[shaft9000]

you raise interesting questions, for sure.

But I think you can just remember that the CD is NOT a jupiter8 - only a representation - it's an audio facsimile of one.
the engineer works all the magic he/she can muster to get it sounding good when it's compacted into a fixed form onto that little silver disc - SPECIFIC for that output. Just as a record mastering engineer has to mix differently for vinyl. I'm just saying that masters can vary A LOT depending on a myriad of factors, and synths sound different because of it...so unless you've spent considerable time in the presence of one, who knows what that Jupiter8 really sounds like?
Most synths can sound 'kinda Moog-y' after all ...

the thing is, there are varying degrees of "emulation success".
Remember when people thought Fairlights and Emulators were The s**t? And 16-bit CD's had 'perfect' sound? Holy Grail achieved, right?
We know better because we now have the choice to take those formats for granted.

Every time I use the Sherman Filterbank I am fairly certain that a 100% all-digital replacement for this box is a looooooooong ways off, probably never. There will be many attempts... some may even make it to market...but who decides when it is 100% successful, or BETTER than the original hardware it is emulating?
At the end of the day people don't give a s**t how much science went into their instrument - it's whether it sounds good and is fun to play/compose with.

The problem I have with Yoozer's line of logic is that it assumes that people WILL figure out EXACTLY how to render EVERY piece of ALL analog hardware obsolete. Or at least synthesizers and FX boxes, I guess.

Which, of course, when you consider reality - that is a ludicrous suggestion....
because,
Unless some fabulous fantastical invention has emerged that no-one's heard about yet, we still need analog hardware (amps, current, voltage control) in order to convert electricity to soundwaves, and that's that.
Good luck with the high-voltage tube gear, nerds - you just gotta love how 'musically' Amplitube et al feeds back

[seamonkey]

Interesting, this is really an analog vs digital thread and there are no body parts splattered along the thread.
Nice intelligent discussion guys.

[esqoner]

a thing that makes being human awesome...

our senses...duh haha.

and tricky...
our brains...we know it isn't the real thing...it is already at a disadvantage...we already partially made up our mind.

i will never like playing a virtual organ as much as a real one....unless maybe the have a little heater inside warming up hammond oil...


my trick is to maintain never actually playing one. that way i cannot really compare. haha.

[lostyetfound]

That's it.

The only people who care is us. It's a personal choice, not a sonic one. Like you say, the brain already knows it's not the same even before it's heard a noise.

The music buying public don't care and people who just enjoy music don't care.

And we'll never be satisfied, even if to all intents and purposes, it's as near as damn it verbatim.

When Vince Clarke's gig rig is a Mac Laptop and Howard Jones is playing "New Song" on a Fantom G...