Why did D+B artists use EMU 4's if midi timing is bad?

[john909kid]

Been listening of late to some of my old Drum and Bass from mid 90's (Photek, Source Direct etc) and it's sparked my interest into picking up one the Emu E4 line of samplers which was used by both of these two acts. (Atually SD used E64, but's its a cut down E4)
Looking around for info and specs on both the E4 and E64, i've seen it mentioned time and time again that both of these units (and others in the Emu line before the Ultras) had really c**p midi timing.
Which then leads to the question, if the midi timing is so bad and c**p, then why did the D+B acts mainly use these samplers!!!???
Dillinja, Optical, Goldie, most MetalHeadz guys used them..... so that must mean the drum and bass from the time is sloppy as anything??
See Photek here demoing his E4


Source Direct again on the E64..


Of the two Source Direct are my favorite. Serious tracks they wrote!!!


But what gives on the E4 series? Is it really that bad midi timing wise? Doesn't sound it to me.......

[Stab Frenzy]

Maybe it's not so bad? Or maybe if you're good at making music you can still do it with a tiny bit of midi jitter. I suspect that a lot of people that complain about things like midi timing are just looking for excuses.

[gcoudert]

I've had an E4K for years and I've never noticed any MIDI timing issues. The main problem with the E4 line is the stupid buttons that either double-trigger or don't trigger at all after a while.

[Yekuku]

To my knowledge , early Jungle/DnB producers preferred the emu samplers over the Akai's because they had Z-plane filters that were ideal for heavy filter processing opposed to the Akai's weak filter.
I was using an E4000 for many years but i didnt notice any midi timing issues. At least they were not so noticeable to make me stop using it.
As for Source Direct, they happened to be two of my favorite DnB producers back in the days; There will never be a darker tune in the DnB genre other than the Source Direct - Stonekiller. It is a perfect example for proving that dark jungle is not all about Amen breaks and Reese basslines.

[madtheory]

Used an ESI4000 for a long time, that definitely had MIDI timing problems but only noticeable when triggering several simultaneous loops, not noticeable when triggering individual samples.

[john909kid]

There will never be a darker tune in the DnB genre other than the Source Direct - Stonekiller. It is a perfect example for proving that dark jungle is not all about Amen breaks and Reese basslines.

Another classic of theirs. Clever use of Aphex Twin SAW2 sample on there too

I think Phil is still producing or he has his own label now, having split up from Jim years ago. Shame... they did produce some absolute classic's all of which i've been canning again of late.

Is there much of a different sound in the E4 classic range compared to the later ultra series? The button problems are putting me off a little from getting an Emu, but i like the filter options they have.

I'm looking for info on either the E64, or E6400. Can they both hold internal HD's?

[john909kid]

Used an ESI4000 for a long time, that definitely had MIDI timing problems but only noticeable when triggering several simultaneous loops, not noticeable when triggering individual samples.

That's the problem i read about on a few drum and bass forums. For example if you tried to simultaneously trigger two separate snare sounds from two different patches, there'd be noticeable flanging. To get around this you'd need to layer both snares at the patch level.

I have also seen it mentioned the Ultras don't have this problem as they've a 32-bit RISC processor designed to improve MIDI timing, but counting against them they sound "cleaner" than the classic series.

[jeeroj]

Man, Source Direct seem like such good old boys in that documentary, classic English drum n bass heads

[madtheory]

For example if you tried to simultaneously trigger two separate snare sounds from two different patches, there'd be noticeable flanging.

Yes, sometimes a very useful effect

[Sir Ruff]

wow... liked seeing that photek vid... still rank his beat mangling as one of the best. Always humbling, in our modern world of synths to see amiga/sampler only setups producing great stuff.

[Joey]

I want Photek's 355

[masstronaut]

Don't forget those samplers have a built in sequencer / MIDI file player so you can do the final playback internally.

[Hugo76]

Sorry if the topic's already been brought up, but maybe one of the reasons for the popularity among d'n'b producers is the beat munging features in the E-mu samplers? Kind of similar to the Yamaha A-series and Recycle software.

[masstronaut]

More than anything though I'd say it's probably the case that some influential producers (maybe 4-Hero, Rob Playford...) in early D&B were using E-MUs so people learned on those or took that as an endorsement. Akais were used more in Jungle though; the classic junglist t i m e s t r e t c h is the sound of Akai's algorithm from that time. Roni Size famously used a Roland (S760?) and I'd bet that people who worked with him early on went and got those.

[masstronaut]

The E-MUs do have a certain sound as well. I hate to say it but I think you could describe the particular tone they impart to drums especially as, er, *phat*.