RE-201 and Keyboards

WWBJD · Post by **WWBJD** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:14 am

Hi again all,

Thanks for the previous help, looking for some more dealing with my RE-201. Much like guitar pedals, the signal into this box seems to be running really hot, while the output is very low. With everything cranked up, I can barely hear it, yet the peak level will constantly clip. My set up, as I'm looking at it right now is a Juno-60 going into the RE-201. The Juno is turned up about half way, the Instrument Volume on the RE-201 is set at half-way. Between the RE-201 and my firebox, I've got a Direct box, which has helped tremendously in getting rid of unwanted noise.

Yet my signal is very, very low (while peaking on the RE-201 as mentioned).

This seems to happen on guitar pedals I use with my keyboards as well. So, I'm assuming I'm just doing something completely wrong (mis-matched signal levels etc).

Any pointers? Need more info?

Post by **Maschinengeist** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:48 am

I know the RE-201 output should be -15dBm on echo; -12.5dBm normal. But if you say that it does the same thing with the other FX, then I think it could be à propos to look at the Juno 60.

As for the Juno, its output should be -30dBm for LOW (0.001 mW); -15dBm for MID; 0dBm for HI (=1.0 mW). There could be a problem with the VCA.

Post by **Cruel Hoax** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:49 am

Guitars (in general) put out a very low-level signal, in need of amplification. Microphones also put out a very low signal (hence the need for a mic preamp.)

Synths put out line-level (or pro-level) signals, hence they overload most guitar pedals and effects.

Your direct box is taking a (presumably) line-level signal and knocking it down to a mic-level signal (hence the signal needing much more gain to get back up to its previous level.)

As a general rule when engineering: avoid gain-changing stages whenever possible. If you have a gain-boosting stage followed by a gain-cutting stage, eliminate them both, unless the combination is giving you pleasing coloration. You can generally elimanate the last one (and then use the line inputs rather than the mic inputs) also.

Too late, too beer.

-Hoax

Post by **Maschinengeist** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:03 am

Ah!!!

But the RE-210 has a LINE IN and a MIC IN... So logically, your synth shouldn't affect the RE-210. If so, maybe the PEAK/LEVEL meter should be adjusted.

Supposition, suppostion...

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:24 am

Don't look at it like one big circuit, think about the synth -> echo stage and get that right and the echo -> firebox as a seperate circuit.

If the RE-201 has a line in, go into that. It might be marked as hi in or active in, I can't remember as I haven't used one for a while. If there's a gain amount switch set it to the lowest amount of gain. (0db is less gain than -20db)

Set the input trim of the 201 to 0. Turn up the Juno til either the peak light comes on or you have the juno turned up most of the way. If it hasn't hit the peak light yet then start turning up the gain on the 201. When you get to the peak light coming on a little bit on loud notes, that's where you want to leave it. You can adjust it to taste later.

Getting from the 201 to the firebox should be pretty simple. You got a radial DI didn't you? The XLR out of that should be going to the firebox mic preamp. Have the output level from the 201 up to around the 3 o'clock setting, most of the way up but not the whole way. You probably don't need to have the pad switched in on the DI, or if it is only at the lowest setting (closest to 0db). Then you just turn up the gain on the mic pre til the level looks good in your software. You want to leave a bit of headroom at the top so it doesn't clip. If it sounds too distorted and doesn't need much gain from the mic pre to get a hot level into the firebox, try changing the pad setting to get the level down a bit.

If you do all that and it still isn't working, post again and we'll see if there might be any other problems.

WWBJD · Post by **WWBJD** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:42 pm

Well you guys rule..

I'll try some of these things tonight, but now just want to make sure the cables would all be proper.

I've got a single-ring 1/4" going from the Juno to the RE-201 into the "Instrument" input. The Juno-61 is set to "HI" on the back. The RE-201 has one instrument and two mic inputs. Each has their own "volume" setting.

From the output of the RE-201, I've got a single-ring 1/4" going to the Radial DI box's input. The RE-201 is set to "HI" output. From the output of the DI box I've got a two-ringed 1/4" to XLR into the Firebox mic preamp.

I always get nervous about cables.. balanced vs unbalanced, single-ring vs. two-ring. Constantly switching them out in all my equipment to see how they affect things. I know in some instances balanced cables (two-ringed right?) can cause a -6db drop in the signal (?). So was worried that the balanced XLR from the DI to the Firebox was dropping the signal.

FYI, going from straight Juno-60 to the Firebox sounds glorious.

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:14 am

OK, a couple of things: Try the Lo out of the Juno into the 201, it's closer to instrument level.

Also, don't use the link out of the radial box, use the XLR output. The link out is just meant for letting the signal get through to an amp if you're tapping the Direct signal off to a mixing desk. The link out isn't balanced and might be expecting a high impedence input at the other end. The XLR is designed to go to a mic pre. That should fix everything.