My drums sound weak

cartesia · Post by **cartesia** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:51 am

Kick drum,
no punch!

I try compressing, I try distorting/saturating/etc, I try EQing,

Any tips? basically whenever I setup a kick drum, it sounds like a wet slapping sound rather than a thick trauma-inducing boom. Any particular frequencies I should boost? any suggested compression settings? other processing?

I have drumazon & nepheton ( reasonable 808/909 emulators), as well as a whole pile of drum machine samples..

For compressing I've tried using various plugins, EQ I am just using Live's bult in EQ.

The kind of kick I am going for is sort of heavy techno/(psy)trance and sometimes more of a lighter prog trance/house style beat.

Post by **Zamise** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:16 am

Instead of compressing and increasing certain freqs have you tried actually changing its pitch? Also I find the best chest bursting punches are usually more in the lower mid ranges or higher lows then in what most people think it being in the lows or low lows. Low lows = building shaking, mids = loud thump. Techno and trance don't use a regular kick I think for what your wanting I think, not like in an 808 or 909's which is more for DnB type styles, because those are pretty low and bassey, they use more of synthetic sounding type kick more in the mids and their pitches sweep upward instead of downward during the hit to cover a wider range and are more snappy or bleepy, just what I've noticed with drum kits I've used on my synths.

Huppo · Post by **Huppo** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:58 pm

Excellent advice from Zamise.

By the same token, make sure the kick drum isn't being washed out by something else in the same range. There's plenty of spectral analysis sorts of plugins that can help with that if your ears aren't picking it out.

Also don't be afraid to try subtly layering in something else with the kick, maybe not even a straight percussion sound. While it may not make the kick sound actually hit any harder it can make it more ear-catching, which can help make it stand out more in the mix.

cartesia · Post by **cartesia** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:03 am

thanks for the advice,

some good thoughts in there, I'll have a play see what I can come up with...

This bit confused me though

Techno and trance don't use a regular kick I think for what your wanting I think, not like in an 808 or 909's which is more for DnB type styles,

When it comes to techno. . . the TR drum machine is and always has been where it's at!

Post by **shaft9000** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:03 am

above all get the envelope right to give it dynamic punch. pitch it in tune with the rest of the instruments and it will reinforce the low end and hit harder.
mix your kick seperate from everything...toms, hats, and the snares and claps, too.

you don't need to compress synth kickdrums ; only live drumkit kicks if ever.

placement in the mix is key....and make sure you're cutting more than you are boosting. You'll get much more energy out of your tracks that way, believe it or not.

all debates aside, imho software has it's hands-on limits and doesn't groove like hardware. tr-909, jomox999 and the like will cost bucks, though. I can get very close though with a Korg EMX - punchy and loud, if not as smooth as the big$$$ boxes. It's still a whole different world from the "software sound".

Post by **killedaway** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:54 am

Huppo had some good advice with the bit about making sure the kick isn't being washed out by something, usually a bassline and sometimes a pad. nip off a little of the low-end from your bassline and see how the kick sounds -- i've found this to be a big help a lot of the time. also, shorten the tail on your kicks to tighten things up, and make sure you listen on multiple sources. i once had a song with what i thought was the "perfect kick" on it. it was really punching at home on my wimpy (at the time) speakers. i burned it and headed out to my car, where i found the kick had a massive long and muddy tail ("decay" to normal people) that trashed the entire track. i swapped it out for something that sounded much more subtle while mixing, but really banged when i tried it in my car again (as well as my stereo and mp3 player!).

also, be sure to overdrive or outright distort your kick(s) some and give them another listen. i find distortion helps to steal a little of the "boom" on kick drums (in a good way), and push them up a little bit, frequency-wise. a hint of crunch helps to brighten them too, giving them more punch than boom.

Suburban Bather · Post by **Suburban Bather** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:27 pm

Use a compressor that has sidechaining. Put the compressor on your bass and send the kick to the sidechain input on the compressor. The volume on the bass will duck everytime the kick fires.

code green · Post by **code green** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:22 pm

or if you don't have sidechain compression as an option, play with your atack and release times. divide 60 by the bpm to get an idea of the ms between yourkicks and work in that range.

Post by **Zamise** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:10 am

cartesia wrote:thanks for the advice,

some good thoughts in there, I'll have a play see what I can come up with...

This bit confused me though
Techno and trance don't use a regular kick I think for what your wanting I think, not like in an 808 or 909's which is more for DnB type styles,
When it comes to techno. . . the TR drum machine is and always has been where it's at!

You're likely right about the 909s, I'm not all that familar with their particular sounds, and I've had some experiece with using 808 samples which I lumped the 909 into with the 808. The 808s ones that I've used needed some work to get out of them that punch. Adding distortion doubling them up, compression etc. Sorry if I made it a bit confusing, I do that sometimes, confused myself even heh.