Audacity acting weird, my mixes become useless

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:13 pm

Dunecat wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote: That's what I was about to suggest, except for the bit about the bit depth and sample rate, that won't make any difference.
Actually it can help, 'cause ADC's have headroom ~6dB above zero, so you can use software limiter plugin on the input bus to avoid clipping, and with higher s/r, bit depth the results will be more pleasant. But I'd recommend to rent a hardware limiter

0dBFS is the point at which the convertor clips, there's no more headroom because there's no number bigger that the convertor can output.

If you're clipping the AD convertor you're out of headroom already, changing the bit depth doesn't magically make things better.

Dunecat · Post by **Dunecat** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:08 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote: If you're clipping the AD convertor you're out of headroom already, changing the bit depth doesn't magically make things better.

Actually there is a +6db headroom above 0db, useful for editing your mistakes in a DAW after conversion (didn't check it myself, but I trust my teachers and some pro level sound design friends of mine), not sure about consumer DACs though ^)

Post by **TrondC** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:40 pm

changing input volume didn't matter either. but on the bright side, the metallic noise is quite similar to that of some of Plastikman's tracks

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:02 am

Dunecat wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote: If you're clipping the AD convertor you're out of headroom already, changing the bit depth doesn't magically make things better.
Actually there is a +6db headroom above 0db, useful for editing your mistakes in a DAW after conversion (didn't check it myself, but I trust my teachers and some pro level sound design friends of mine), not sure about consumer DACs though ^)

You sound a bit confused about things.

Mix engine headroom (what you seem to be talking about) is different to ADC headroom, which is different to the headroom of the analogue circuits on the input of your ADC. If you clip the ADC you end up with a straight line where there should be a curve continuing up. No amount of mix engine headroom will make it curved again.

It's the same as if you recorded an electric guitar through a distortion pedal and then decided you didn't want it to be distorted any more. You can't just turn it down in the mixer after the guitarist has gone home and expect it to not be distorted any more.

TrondC: I couldn't hear what you were talking about in that track. Maybe I didn't get the player working right or something. Didn't sound like obvious distortion to me anyway.

Post by **TrondC** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:44 pm

TrondC: I couldn't hear what you were talking about in that track. Maybe I didn't get the player working right or something. Didn't sound like obvious distortion to me anyway.[/quote]

ah, it's not distortion, but a metallic noise that's attached to the bassdrum that I worry about. I've had several people listen, and they all agree that it's audiable and not something I want in my mix. I know that sounds distort above certain volumes, but this is not what is going on here. I even tried to record with the volume as down as it can get, but still there's this metallic noise. In case you misunderstood, I have posted 2 tracks, where in one, you can hear the metallic noise, and another clip where there is no noise at all. both clips were recorded with the exact same output volume, and both clips went out of the mixer al values below 0db ( no clipping)

still, my biggest concern is that Audacity just won't multitrack, making it impossible to record many of my songs, as they consist of a sequenced part, and several parts played manually over the sequences. If it is the case that Audacity just ain't good enough for multitracking, I see no other alternative than to save up and get something live Live 6, which I will buy some day anyway. But as I am VERY broke (and will be for the next 2-3 months), this means I'll have to put everything on delay

Dunecat · Post by **Dunecat** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:39 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote: Mix engine headroom (what you seem to be talking about) is different to ADC headroom, which is different to the headroom of the analogue circuits on the input of your ADC. If you clip the ADC you end up with a straight line where there should be a curve continuing up. No amount of mix engine headroom will make it curved again.

You can't be sure that your ADC isn't 17bit for example - it can be tuned to use 16 bits for 0-0,775V and the remaining bit for slightly higher voltages. I understand the principles of AD|DA conversion, I'm talking about manufacturers, which are able to make this headroom, and they make it(from what I heard)...it's easy to check empirically, never did it cause I'm satisfied with my input levels

Post by **tallowwaters** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:53 am

TrondC wrote:TrondC: I couldn't hear what you were talking about in that track. Maybe I didn't get the player working right or something. Didn't sound like obvious distortion to me anyway.

ah, it's not distortion, but a metallic noise that's attached to the bassdrum that I worry about. I've had several people listen, and they all agree that it's audiable and not something I want in my mix. I know that sounds distort above certain volumes, but this is not what is going on here. I even tried to record with the volume as down as it can get, but still there's this metallic noise. In case you misunderstood, I have posted 2 tracks, where in one, you can hear the metallic noise, and another clip where there is no noise at all. both clips were recorded with the exact same output volume, and both clips went out of the mixer al values below 0db ( no clipping)

still, my biggest concern is that Audacity just won't multitrack, making it impossible to record many of my songs, as they consist of a sequenced part, and several parts played manually over the sequences. If it is the case that Audacity just ain't good enough for multitracking, I see no other alternative than to save up and get something live Live 6, which I will buy some day anyway. But as I am VERY broke (and will be for the next 2-3 months), this means I'll have to put everything on delay

[/quote]

tried Reaper yet?

piRoN · Post by **piRoN** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:18 pm

Dunecat wrote:I understand the principles of AD|DA conversion

But not the implementation.

Post by **TrondC** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:03 pm

tallowwaters wrote:tried Reaper yet?

no, I actually can't even afford the 50$ version these days, that's why I was hoping Audacity would do the trick..
Will definately upgrade to something like Live if I get a decent summer-job, or maybe just buy the full version of Reaper, if anyone can reccomend that?

seems I can't get rid of that metallic noise using audacity, but thanx for all the replies, I really appreciate the amount of help one can get here when a novice like me gets stuck

Post by **TrondC** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:52 pm

allright, bumping this back with an update. Yesterday I had my last exam and I really want to get going with recording. Being fed up with Audacity (it just won't multitrack in time, it crashes several times every hour, and there's a ugly, metallic noise piercing through everything I record that just ruins my mixes). So I got Reaper yesterday. Still waiting for e-mail with details of downloading, but I am very excited to see if this solves the noise-problem. I'll post again tomorrow with final judgement

Post by **TrondC** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:36 pm

soo... Reaper really seems nice from the time I've spent with it in the demo-mode, everything I need laid op nicely and the sound quality really beats audacity hands down. for the first time in my career as a hobby musician (some 5-6 years now), I've been able to record and have the recording sound almost exactly like it does when heard via headphones straight from the mixer. I am very happy, and won't be using audacity again..

however, I paid for the non-commercial licence on saturday, and they said I'd hear from them withing a couple days. It's now been 5 days and they don't even answer my e-mail, which is kind of odd, given it should not be much hassle to prepare a file download for me or however they do this..

so, the waiting time aside, I think I finally got what I need. Hopefully I'll do the whole MIDI- and multiple input audio interface some time this summer, but I'm moving to a new place with my girlfriend, so money may be short..

ahem, I may be talking to myself here, but thanx for the tip on Reaper tallow, this was pretty spot on what I needed. Can't wait to do some proper recording again this weekend (if my reaper license ever arrives that is..)

...ehm thanx