help needed to JACK

[princefan3]

Hi Guys...i need some help to get the extra JACK in my grooves

my set up... TR 707....JX3P....NOV BASS STATION

what would you purchase next to bring a jacking groove to the mix..i cant afford a 909...was thinking korg er 1

the 707 is great but a bit boring to listen to for a long period.

i need just a tad more interest in a track

i want to keep the units i use to a minimum.

cheers

[meatballfulton]

what would you purchase next to bring a jacking groove to the mix

I'd buy nothing and find other ways to "add interest"...like working on the parts of your track. Music first, gear second, eh?

What's "boring" about a 707 that you think a 909 would bring to the table?

[princefan3]

you might be right there meatball...perhaps i should invest more time into the 707.

some guys try a 606 with it.. but does it bring much to the table apart from some better hi hats....

909s bring a groove but again its mainly hi hats and rides....and a thump.

[micahjonhughes]

With the basstation standing in for a 303, you have a classic Chicago Jack set-up. I suppose you know that the 707 will swing just like the 909.

[Stab Frenzy]

It's not the gear, it's the user.

[princefan3]

Hi Micah...thanks for the example and reply....im trying to move away from the typical 303 scenario..been there.

sold mine a little way back...thankgod i did with the cyclone now out and about.

and the jx3p can do acid if i want anyway.

what im trying to get at is..if the 707 was just playing alone...it feels like it needs a companion to spice things up.

i would still like to keep it in a chicago vibe.

a 909 would take over i feel....a 606 can offer only hi hats in general but has no midi....an er 1 might make it happen and would bring a different angle of sound.

what do you think..?

HAPPY CHRISTMAS STAB

[micahjonhughes]

It sounds like you are looking for a second drum machine. There are lots of options. Narrowing down the option would be aided by knowing if you are wanting analog drum sounds or sampled drum sounds.

I may be wrong, but if the 707 acts as master clock, it spits out both midi clock and din sync. So, you would be able to sync up a 606 or perhaps a cr8000. Those are the less expensive Roland analogs. I feel analog drum fill up space without being overwhelming. However, neither on these machines have a big kick.

I've no experience with the ER 1, but I've never been excited about it.

There are lots of drum machines that have samples of both analog drums and acoustic drums. There really are too many options.

Maybe you should dump the 707 and get a Jomox

[ninja6485]

I think I know exactly what you're looking for, but it isn't another drum machine (I can't believe I just suggested that). What you're looking for are effects that you can send the individual sounds through. I use a mixer and aux sends, so if I have my high hats on a separate track, I would have the outs of my effects on different track, and mix the high hats into the effects unit with an aux send. Then you can play with the equalizers on each, bring each out or in, and and tweak the wet hats. Or take a bunch of wet high hat recordings and arrainge them in a daw, but that doesn't have quite the same feel unless you're prepared to take really long recordings. If you do get another drum machine, it ends up sounding pretty much just like when you had one drum machine, except you have different options as far as sounds go. Take it from me, I have like 8 drum machines (I do reccomend pursuing a nice collection of rolands however ).

[GooGoo]

Buy an Akai MPC. It's got that swing and you can throw in any samples (drum machine or otherwise) you want.

[ninja6485]

here's a quick demo I did of my 707 using just the 707, mixer, and two effects processors. It's nothing special, just one pattern, but you can see how the wet and dry sounds come together and really fill out the jam and make it more interesting. I just sort of improvised, but if you plan out your patterns and sit down and design some good effects patches I think you should be able to get a lot of versitility out of the 707 this way. An added bonus is that if you add your jx-3p and bass station into the equation, you can send them to the effects just as easily, and get a lot more bang for your buck so to speak

[princefan3]

TWO great posts Ninja top stuff...thanks a lot for your time in explaining your thoughts...

the soundcloud example made me laugh at the beginning of the track, as this is exactly what im talking about.

an ok rythm, acceptable but gets boring very quickly. you could get away with it if you had more synths to drown it out in a large production, but where you are working with a few pieces of equipment, you have to make the most from them, especially chicago house. where the emphasis is on the drums.... barring a 303 pattern.

i have one effects unit and basic at that...ZOOM 1204..and ive never got on with it to be honest.
but again it could be my way of working, so i could be doing it wrong.

could you recommend a couple of units that you would try. that would be handy.

yes you do have a few rolands there dont you...intrested to see you have the RX5 was considering this chap as the missing other half. now i dont have to worry so much now as it looks that i need another efects unit.and i dont have any further space on my working desk anyway..

cheers again buddy and look forward to your comments.

[ninja6485]

I kind of had a feeling that was what you were looking for! I had exactly the same problem at one point. Glad I could lend a hand! And I knew it was one of those things you just have to hear. I only have two dedicated effects processors, so others may have better recommendations, but for this style of playing I highly recommend the aria dex 100. As a delay, it's dark and warm like a good sampler, and it has both a notched course time control (range), and a free fine time control(ratio, from .5-2x the range parameter), which makes it very easy to tweak delay times, unlike my other effects unit the spx50d, which only allows you to enter the delay time with buttons. Both are old and cheap!

[princefan3]

Hi again Ninja....used your knowledge to thr full yesterday...i would like to post it on here with soundcloud.

how do you do it, would be good to know...

anyway my ULR is....if you want to listen....i think you can do it this way..?

http://soundcloud.com/princefan3

i had abit of difficulty on 1.17 secs as i was playing live and had too many sliders to move, so it put me off playing.

the jx3p is doing its bit with a sequenced melody and chords over the top...bass station doing the bass

and the 707 doing its thang....hope you like it..

HAPPY NEW YEAR BY THE WAY...im off down the coast now to celebrate it..

[micahjonhughes]

Some effects will improve the sound of the 707 but wont give you more jack.

The jack sound comes from percussive sounds with stresses off the down beat.

In the example you posted, all of the synth sounds have a lot of sustain on them. So your synth sounds are the opposite of percussive. Further, there is no space to hear the drum machine, the synths are covering up the percussion.

If you want to make something that jacks, think more percussive across the board. Organ stabs, synth hits and bleeps, and staccato, syncopated base lines. If you are generally happy with what you are doing, keep on doing it and try some new gear or effects.

[ninja6485]

I like the drum sound, it has a little bit of a mr. fingers sound to it. I usually only tweak one or two sounds at a time, with the exception of muting and unmuting things so it doesn't get chaotic. It's helpful to start small, and record a bunch of jams and then listen to them a few days later to see what you're dissatisfied with so you can brainstorm some solutions to fix it for the next jam. I also keep my aux send pre switch on so that with the volume fader down, the aux knob still sends out to the effects unit. The technique works really well for two complimentary break beats! And of course the more you separate from the main outs, the more you can mess arround with the rhytm. A lot of what I did to the 707 rhythm in the recording I posted was manipulating the pan and eq's as well.