FM Synth newb needs help with DX7 and breath controller

[Hooya]

Hi all.

I am not a keyboardist. I play wind instruments and have been using a Yamaha WX5 wind controller for a while now. I'm pretty good with programming a basic analog synth and have a lot of patches on my DSI MOPHO that work just great with the WX5, but I recently acquired a Yamaha TX7 (the expander that works just like a DX7 in desktop form) that I also want to use exclusively with my wind controller.

Thing is that I have no idea what I'm doing with programming this thing.

I use the ctrlr program with the TX7 panel to edit parameters and have boatloads of sysex files that have basic sounds, but most of them are not built with wind controllers in mind - even when I turn the breath controller sensitivity on for each voice/carrier, turn it on for the patch globally set to EG bias it doesn't always do anything. Some patches I've found work really well, but I can't figure out what is different about them that make them expressive with the breath controller.

I'd appreciate any help from someone that knows the ins and outs of the DX7/TX7 synth or FM synths in general that can help me figure this out. I'd like to take some patches that I like the sound of and adjust them for expressive use on the wind controller. I'm not interested in building any patches from scratch.

Thanks in advance!

My apologies if this would be better suited to a different sub-forum. Move as needed.

[CS_TBL]

Thing is that I have no idea what I'm doing with programming this thing.

You're not alone..

I'd appreciate any help from someone that knows the ins and outs of the DX7/TX7 synth or FM synths in general that can help me figure this out. I'd like to take some patches that I like the sound of and adjust them for expressive use on the wind controller. I'm not interested in building any patches from scratch.

Here's the bad news: tweaking a DX7 means understanding a DX7 or you'll have no idea what you're doing. And understanding a DX7 means understanding FM. And learning FM from scratch on a DX7/TX7 is a bad idea, unless you like to see yourself crying out on the couch at your local psychiatrist. ^^

However, choosing FM is in general a good idea if you want expressiveness. But I recommend a more visual way of learning FM if you really want to have an effective understanding of what you're doing, else you'd be better off with a VL70m or something.. full o' wind 'n brass. As for visual: there are enough free FM VST plugins out there to try, but whichever you grab: make sure it has free FM routing rather than fixed algorithms.

[Bitexion]

The breath controller doesn't play the keyboard for you, it's just a modulation controller like the modwheel or pitchbend wheel. You can tell it to engange the LFO, or modulate various other parameters in a sound. It was made for the DX7, and the synth has specific parameters for assigning to the breath controller. But you'll still have to know where to find those parameters so you can change them on your own.

Yamaha has all their old synth manuals scanned as PDF files on some website. Google for it and you'll find the DX7 manual.

[Hooya]

The WX5 is a single controller, it sends keyboard data, note on-off, velocity information, but it's designed to work in conjunction with the breath control. Forget keyboards. I don't use one. The WX5 does it all. It's not just a breath controller, it's a "wind controller." The issue is expressiveness.

I found one major issue, with the editor I was using it let me put an incorrect value of 4 in the amp mod value in each operator. So now that I know that 3 is the max value and to only assign that value at most to any given operator, I am actually getting the breath mod to get to the operators I want.

The issue was partially nomenclature, but partially the fact that the editor had a bug.

[madmarkmagee]

The WX5 does it all.

Except for chords.

I think you would have to work out what exactly the WX5 sends in the way of midi and what the TX 7 can receive.

Dunno about the TX7, but I know a lot of older synths had fairly primitive midi setup.

The Mopho worked with the WX5. My guess is the WX5 sends midi CC messages and the Mopho excepts them. Not sure if you can go in and edit what CCs the WX5 it sends, but usually things are mapped similar across equipment for basic things. So when you blow harder, that probably means the WX5 sends CCs which are commonly maped to velocity or aftertouch, so the Mopho receives this message, those CCs are recognised and the filter opens or the synth is louder on the Mopho. And the mod thingy on the WX5 is probably sending a CC which is mapped to the pitch bend or mod wheel on the Mopho.

You need to find out what CCs your WX5 is sending, whether CCs work with the TX7, and if so, what they do. Then you need to work out if you can change the CCs the WX5 can send if the TX 7 responds to different CCs.

As regards to programming the TX7, from the front panel its pretty impossible I believe. If you want to program it you need a pc editor. I honestly only have a basic understanding of FM.

[Hooya]

The WX5 sends:
Pitch data (from the keys)
Note on/off, determined by a minimum of air flow
Velocity, determined by the initial air flow attack on a note
CC#2 (breath), determined by air flow < THIS IS THE KEY FACTOR, it's called the breath control
Pitch bend: from a flange inside the mouthpiece and a wheel on the body of the instrument
Mod wheel: from a wheel on the body of the instrument.

And yes, it can play chords. I'm not good at doing it, but you can tell the WX5 to hold a pitch as you finger a new pitch and add up to I think 4 notes total. Don't know, as I've only used the MoPho which... doesn't do chords.

All of these things work with the TX7, it's just a matter of mapping them properly. Again, the biggest issue I faced was an editor that had an incorrect value option for the sensitivity level of the CC#2 control. Now it's more about trial and error I think: in sounds that I like from all the patches I've found online, how does assigning that sensitivity (and also adjusting keyboard sensitivity), and adjusting the RATE levels for the various 1234 values change the sound over time? I'll be able to test and tweak I think.

Thanks for that video though, I'll look at more things like that for a greater understanding of FM. Like I said, I'm pretty solid with Analog subtractive style, and really for changing existing sounds to BC style sounds isn't rocket science once you understand the synth you're working with. I've done this with a TX81z as well (only a little) but it's only 4 operator and the editor was more straight foward with less bugs.

The WX5 does it all.

Except for chords.

I think you would have to work out what exactly the WX5 sends in the way of midi and what the TX 7 can receive.

Dunno about the TX7, but I know a lot of older synths had fairly primitive midi setup.

The Mopho worked with the WX5. My guess is the WX5 sends midi CC messages and the Mopho excepts them. Not sure if you can go in and edit what CCs the WX5 it sends, but usually things are mapped similar across equipment for basic things. So when you blow harder, that probably means the WX5 sends CCs which are commonly maped to velocity or aftertouch, so the Mopho receives this message, those CCs are recognised and the filter opens or the synth is louder on the Mopho. And the mod thingy on the WX5 is probably sending a CC which is mapped to the pitch bend or mod wheel on the Mopho.

You need to find out what CCs your WX5 is sending, whether CCs work with the TX7, and if so, what they do. Then you need to work out if you can change the CCs the WX5 can send if the TX 7 responds to different CCs.

As regards to programming the TX7, from the front panel its pretty impossible I believe. If you want to program it you need a pc editor. I honestly only have a basic understanding of FM.