That old ensemble effect

Synthprophet · Post by **Synthprophet** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:38 pm

It's not so easy to get around one of the classic stringers, and today's synths don't have the ensemble or multi chorus effect.
What is the best way to get the classic ensemble effect?
I have been looking on the Boss Chorus Ensemble pedal. I haven't tried it so I don't know if it will give me that classic vibe.
What other easy-to-come-around alternatives are there?

Post by **nathanscribe** » Sat May 31, 2008 12:19 am

Your typical analogue chorus pedal will have similar ICs (bucket brigades of various sizes) to the typical onboard chorus/ensemble effect, but are arranged in a slightly different way. The synth effects (from Roland at least) tended to use two or three channels of chorus with different modulation speeds, whereas simpler modern analogue chorus pedals (small clone etc) have a single rate of modulation for one effect, which you can mix with the dry signal. I think the closest separate units to the built-in 70s/80s synths might be the equally old Dimension C or D. Behringer have made a clone of the old pedal, which Tallow has been using I think.

There might be pedals/racks that come closer to the old stuff, but I don't know what they are

Post by **aeon** » Sat May 31, 2008 2:21 am

nathanscribe wrote:I think the closest separate units to the built-in 70s/80s synths might be the equally old Dimension C or D.

The Boss Dimension C and Roland SDD-320 Dimension D provide a lovely chorus sound, but it is unlike those found in synths of the period mentioned, and is nothing like the ensemble effects asked about. Dim C/D are noted for their stillness, whereas ensemble effects are all about motion and swirl.

The Korg OASYS PCI, Kurzweil RSP8, and Lexicon PCM-81 all have the structure necessary to program and emulate an ensemble effect, but I have never tried to recreate one on these devices.

I used to own a Korg SDD-3300 delay, and you can perfectly recreate the Solina chorus on this unit. Ensemble effects are a breeze.

The Eventide H8000FW can recreate all manner of ensemble effects.

The Roland RS-505 Paraphonic has an external input to its BBD-based analog ensemble.

The Yamaha A-series samplers all have an ensemble effect or two in their effects sections, as do most all Yamaha synths of the past few years, but it may or may not be to your liking.

The Roland SDX-330 Dimension Chorus has a perfect ensemble algorithm within it. Feed it a saw wave, get out a perfect string machine emulation.

cheers,
Ian

Post by **nathanscribe** » Sat May 31, 2008 10:37 am

Ah, I should have added I was taking a badly-educated guess with that line, Ian. Note to self: don't talk about gear you don't know. 8)

To add something useful though, the Boss RCE-10 does a nice (digital) stereo chorus. Not identical to the synth ensemble sound, as you rightly say, and as I managed to overlook, but still it's a decent unit for cheap. One of the things I like about the Juno chorus over some others I've tried (not a long list btw) is the way it seems to widen the sound as much as thicken it. Boss also made the CE-300, another BBD type, which I believe is a stereo unit. Don't know its sound though.

OriginalJambo · Post by **OriginalJambo** » Sat May 31, 2008 6:42 pm

I have recently acquired a Behringer Chorus Space-C CC300. I'm thinking of making a YouTube video - I just need to get my X-Station to agree with my web cam software.

Synthprophet · Post by **Synthprophet** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:21 pm

Ok thanks for mentioning some alternatives, and some comments. Others have recommended the Small Clone for me. It would also match a Small Stone pretty well, which is the phaser that has convinced me to be the best for what I am looking for.
I can see that the Behringer pedal you mentioned Jambo, is a preset pedal. I have only used Distortion pedals from Behringer, which were good enough. What about this one, the Chorus Space-C. Does it offer a usable result?

code green · Post by **code green** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:31 pm

just a note: i have the boss ce-2--got it for guitar--and i have found that it often does not play well with synths; impedence-matching is an issue.

i have used the mxr phase 100 and phase 90 to good effect with my crumar performer, though--with the 100, at least--i have found a marked difference between the vintage and current production models (vintage much better--more natural and integrated sound).

Post by **tallowwaters** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:40 pm

Synthprophet wrote:Ok thanks for mentioning some alternatives, and some comments. Others have recommended the Small Clone for me. It would also match a Small Stone pretty well, which is the phaser that has convinced me to be the best for what I am looking for.
I can see that the Behringer pedal you mentioned Jambo, is a preset pedal. I have only used Distortion pedals from Behringer, which were good enough. What about this one, the Chorus Space-C. Does it offer a usable result?

First of all, be wary of the newer EHX pedal, as they have shite quality control. The vintage ones work fine.

The behringer space chorus rip off pedal sounds fantastic, but as ian stated, it is not going to get you that old ensemble effect. The closest I have got to that sound involved putting stereo outs into two different chorus pedals.

Post by **Solderman** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:06 pm

nathanscribe wrote:Boss also made the CE-300, another BBD type, which I believe is a stereo unit. Don't know its sound though.

Well, I can vouch this being another one that can't do the ensemble on its own, although I've gotten close with vibrato on only one of two sawtooth waves fed into the CE-300. Something else is missing, so I guess I'd need at least one more pitchmod source.

You can hear the CE-300 in my JP8 pads demo. It's 18 patches, four recordings each, and the second and fourth run through the CE-300.
http://files.filefront.com/JP8padszip/; ... einfo.html

Post by **aeon** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:49 am

tallowwaters wrote:The closest I have got to that sound involved putting stereo outs into two different chorus pedals.

Smart! This can get some great sounds.

cheers,
Ian

OriginalJambo · Post by **OriginalJambo** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:34 pm

Synthprophet wrote:I can see that the Behringer pedal you mentioned Jambo, is a preset pedal. I have only used Distortion pedals from Behringer, which were good enough. What about this one, the Chorus Space-C. Does it offer a usable result?

Here's a very short demo of an electric guitar riff through the Behringer Chorus Space-C CC300 and the VD400 Vintage Delay pedals.

First you'll hear the guitar dry, then through the VD400 and then through both the VD400 and CC300. I apologise for the slight distortion present, but it should give you an idea.

I'd say it doesn't sound like a classic ensemble effect at all.

Z · Post by Z » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:05 am

I made a couple of quick video demos of my newly aquired Roland RS-505 Paraphonic. This first one is just the RS-505 (also available in "High Quality" playback):

This video is of an out of tune MicroMoog running through the RS-505's external input & Ensemble effect:

I recorded these in steroe, but it seems to playback in mono on YouTube. I was under the impression that YouTube added stereo playback, but did not see a upload format selection or anything in their "Help" section about stereo files. Does anyone know how to enable stereo playback?

Post by **nathanscribe** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:41 am

Z wrote:I made a couple of quick video demos of my newly aquired Roland RS-505 Paraphonic

Ooh, I like the sound aournd 1:00. Nice indeed. And 1:50. Also nice.

Z · Post by Z » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:26 pm

nathanscribe wrote:
Z wrote:I made a couple of quick video demos of my newly aquired Roland RS-505 Paraphonic
Ooh, I like the sound aournd 1:00. Nice indeed. And 1:50. Also nice.

1:00 is all "Feet" or "Stops" ON in the synthesizer section with Ensemble I.

1:50 is everything engaged (all bass, all synth, all strings) with Ensemble III.

Synthprophet · Post by **Synthprophet** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:40 pm

That's nice indeed. I really enjoy those classic sounds

If just them good old stringer synths were a little easier to get around.