Vocal unit with MIDI and vocoder?

[pricklyrobot]

Regarding the VF-1. Is it possible to set up a vocoder patch on it as a multi effect patch with an EQ after/before the vocoder effect? I've just read the manual. It says the vocoder multi patch in the factory preset has a chorus after it and also a reverb. So can these be removed and an EQ put in instead?

If you're looking at the manual, make sure to check out the algorithm list as well as the patch list, it'll give you a better idea of what you can and can't rearrange. The VF has some decent flexibility, but it's definitely not a full-on modular effects processor.

Unfortunately, in the case of the the Vocoder, the algorithm is essentially the same as the preset. You just have Vocoder > Stereo Chorus > Reverb to work with. The only thing you can really customize is the reverb type.

[gmeredith]

Thanks Prickly, I suspected there were limitations with certain algorithms. I guess I'll just have to suck it and see and just buy a VF-1 to see how it sounds. Surely it has to be better than the SE50 which we use now which is somewhat useable as is. At least they don't go for that much on ebay so not much lost if I don't like the vocoder. And I'm sure it is still a great general purpose fx unit that i can always use somewhere if I don't.

[pricklyrobot]

And I'm sure it is still a great general purpose fx unit that i can always use somewhere if I don't.

Indeed it is. If I weren't so busy in the immediate future, I'd offer to try and throw together a demo of the vocoder. Let me know if you're still shopping around in a few weeks though.

[gmeredith]

I will, thanks!

[tallowwaters]

Looks like PRobot beat me to it. You're stuck with chorus and verb on the vocoder patches. If you want more versatility, you could always keep the SE50s and run the VF-1 into it, or go with 2 VF-1s and set up a multi tap or LCR delay, hard panned to each side so other guy can have different delay time than you.

Aside from your vocoder patch, you also have the Voice Transform algo for all sorts of formant/gender bending goodness. Lots of other esoteric effects, including one of the best (as in musical sounding) lofi/bit algos I've come across, a slicer, 3d verb/chorus, and amp modeling (one of my fave fx on vox).

Anyhow, I'll try and do a demo of the vocoder tomorrow.

Still though, an R3 has an excellent vocoder and 3 effect slots afterwards (actually, 2 after each 'timbre' and a third global, so 5 fx slots in reality), with all kinds of cool s**t like formant filtering, grainshifting, etc, zand all sort of LFO control and sync options.


I'm a bastard.

[gmeredith]

Yes, you are, Tallow!

Honestly, If I had the money for 2 R3's, I can see they would truly be the answer to our gear setup, after thinking about it long and hard. It has everything in it we need, plus it would replace our 61 key controller keyboard and be more compact, plus have synth sounds etc. I wish I had money Do other people have money?

I think the VF-1 will do us for now. And as you said, we can utilize the SE50's as programmable EQ's for the VF-1 vocoder patches. Whenever I buy gear, I never sell it, I hold onto it, so they'd be hanging around anyway. Maybe that's why I don't have money??

[tallowwaters]

I hear ya. I'll try and knock up a demo today.

[gmeredith]

That would be great, thanks!

In the meantime, i've been RTFM of my SE50 a bit better. There are all these extra vocoder parameters I never knew were there - one of them being a high pass filter for the incoming dry mic signal that gets recombined with the output of the vocoder element - so the ss's and t's and hissy percussive consonants of the vocals pass through parallel to the vocoded signal, then combined at the end. It makes a HUGE difference. The SE50 vocoder is a completely different beast now - much clearer and intelligible! I haven't fiddled with any of the 7 vocoder band levels either, that could help too. I can only imagine that if this is how the SE50 sounds at its best, then the VF-1 should sound a notch better than this again - and it also has those parameters as well. Looking forward to hearing some demos now!

[tallowwaters]

Hey Mr Meredith, I ain't forgot about ye, I'll have this whole week to knock up something, thought it sounds like you may have solved your problem.

[gmeredith]

Well, temporarily - the parameter tweaks have made the SE50 more useable than before, but it only has convinced me more that if I can get my one to sound better, then the VF-1 should sound another level better above this one, doing the same tweaks to it, since all the specs are significantly better than my unit. i'm pretty much in the market now for a VF-1 or two, so any demos will be a nice foretaste

[tallowwaters]

Wanna put your settings up here or pm them to me so I can get close to the sound you already have for direct comparison?

[gmeredith]

Sure! Thanks for this!

Vocoder section:
Mic sens: ---------- at default 100 level
Bands (SE50 calls them "voice characters" 1-7) : ---- all at default 100 level
Hi Freqency mix: -------- 50

Chorus section: ------ level turned down to zero (effectively bypassing it)

Noise Gate section: ---- bypassed

Master level: 100

You have a reverb section instead of my noise gate, so just bypass it too.

That's all there is to adjust in my vocoder section.

Cheers, Graham

[tallowwaters]

Went to make the demos tonight and it occurred to me that I have no idea what your chain is here. What synth are you using for the carrier? Are you running into a preamp first?

For some odd reason, I no longer have XLR to TRS/TS cables, so I will likely have to run to a pre first.

[gmeredith]

Hi Tallow,

We're using a TX802 with a sax sound as the carrier, so any rompler or synth with a sax should do it. It's going straight into the SE50, no preamp or eq. Mic is an SM57.

Cheers, graham