Building new rig - Torn between two live performance methods

[cartesia]

OK this is a quandary because I love both but can only afford to do one (half-assed 'both' in other decision making situations too many times before.. I'm going all out on one and the other can just die)

Anyhow.. the 2 options are:
1)
drum machine + synth (both driven by epic step sequencer) -> mixer with a million sends with a million delays and a million reverbs.

Budget for this option is looking something along the lines of - Machinedrum, $700-800 synth (undecided.. anything from multitimbral VA to semimodular perhaps dark energy) - I already have a mixer + plenty of fx

2)
sampler + drum-pad controller + multifx + multitrack looping (maybe a cheap synth thrown in like a micromod or something, to also be played live from the pads)

Budget for #2 is no issue, easily all fits in.

ANYHOW.. The specific choices for each type are not important..
basically my problem is that

1) I love step sequencers. I love mixers and delays. It takes me away to another dimension. BUT I feel that it's quite an old sound now though.. I dont think there are any new innovations waiting to happen here.. everything I make from this method will sound the same as the music I've already heard.. although its still fun making that music, getting taken away by it.. I dont know if I want to be so dwelling on the past when I'm still not really old... well that's not quite what I mean. but I think you understand.. I feel like I'd just be clinging to one thing

2) I feel will give me a much more exciting (to me) way of working.. but it wont be as 'deep' if that makes sense.. seems like I wont get that same kind of hypnotic-techno vibe and I can never achieve the same kind of rhythms with live playing as I can with step sequencing...


Both styles lead to slightly different music.. that's not an issue, as I love plenty.. from house/techno all the way through to ambient glitchy hiphop type stuff. Another thing that weighs on my mind is that techno for me these days is a purely personal endeavour.. there is no rave scene here anymore, there is no way I'd end up playing out anywhere if i took option 1).. that doesn't really bother me I think, but I guess on some level it registers in my mind....

I have never found it so tough as now to make a decision! Has anyone had to make a similar(ish) decision? If so, what did you choose, and how did you feel?

People who've been involved with live-playing to loopers, how do you feel about it?

People who've regretted losing their step sequencers/epic mad scientist rigs.. or gone back after trying other things.. or stuck to the whole time.. what do you think?

I know at the end of the day I can just sell stuff and buy other stuff, but I have wasted waaaaay too long doing that, and invariably some of the money gets spent on the side during a gear-swap so its worth trying to avoid.

[Sir Nose]

If it was me I'd choose #1. But, it's you.

You say #2 would be an exciting way of working, that means a lot.

If you can keep yourself from not making the same old music with the tools in #1, I'd say go for that. There is enough shallow music out there. What can be done with the tools in #1 is far from complete. Use the tools in a new way.

[cartesia]

Hey thanks! that's intersting.. I guess you get into ruts about how you treat certain gear.

Could you link me to some more of your favorite sequence-y music? I would kind of prefer 1 in most ways, except for that one thing - so if you could show me some things to spark ideas.. that would be great

[Stab Frenzy]

I don't really get how this is a question. You don't have to choose, just do whatever you want. Why not use a Machinedrum UW with RAM machines as a mini looper, or use a KP3 synced to a sequencer to loop along with the sequence, or whatever you can think of.

Is this a what to buy question or a how to make music question?

[cartesia]

I dont want to put something into loop form so I can treat it as a piece of audio, I want to be able to capture my live playing instantaneously in multiple tracks - there's no interest to me at all in looping a sequence.

As for a UW satisfying my live playing/ looping needs - it just doesn't have the sample space, and were I to buy a UW, I would not have much money for anything else.

These are the options available:

1- halfass both. I've done this in many situations in my life and it has never been the right choice, so I wont do it again.
2- do something halfway between the 2 (eg looping sequenced material - I am not interested in doing this at all)
3- rob a bank. not doing this either.
or
4- decide which gear option to take.

I want both seemingly equally, but if I continue on that path I do not get anywhere at all, so I have to make a decision to choose between 2 different sets of gear.

I am asking if people have made a similar or even relatable decision and what the outcome/feeling of their decision was, because they may raise a point that I have not yet considered.

[edfunction]

an esx or mpc would also fit in the both category. esx integrates really well with other boxes.

i'm with stab and don't really understand why it has to be one way or another unless you are trying to artificially create limitations that force you to work a particular way then i get it. i don't really understand what would be half-arsed about giving yourself more flexibility....

i went from hardware to software and back again primarily for live playing as it is just a great deal more fun and lends itself to a different experience every time.

my setup changes depending on whether i'm playing alone or with others but from experience for your first scenario i would recommend esx and monomachine plus other small bits if you need them. this is great for hands on machine techno especially into a mixer with fx. with that i like to have an analog drum machine providing the basic rhythm and use the samples for more varied percussion and blips. with the mm it's easy to add a cheap multitimbral synth later for 6 extra synth tracks and vary the pallette.

sure scenario 1 is a fairly well worn path but live hardware sets are pretty rare these days to make them inherently interesting.

[cartesia]

thanks for the thoughts..

I'm not trying to artificially limit myself, I am limited by money (not just temporarily - the money I am taking out of my budget to spend on this gear is the only money I will be able to spend on gear for the next 1-2 years) - and limited by wanting gear that is able to perform specific functions (....again... I do not want to run sequenced material into a looper, I have no interest there - so there is no point in me creating a hybrid halfway between these 2 setups)

[Stab Frenzy]

(....again... I do not want to run sequenced material into a looper, I have no interest there - so there is no point in me creating a hybrid halfway between these 2 setups)

That's not what I said, I said you could run a sequencer alongside a looper so that you could get the live looping thing you want as well as the sequencing thing you want.

So if you made the sampler in #2 an MPC, that would cover both.

If money's an issue then you have a lot of things you could get rid of, like the ES-1, DR-110, SP-404 and M-Base. Sell them and pick up an MPC1000 and MFB-522 and you've got the best of the sampling, sequencing and analogue drumming worlds for not much money or space, you've got real time pad based sequencing as well as x0x drum sequencing. Add to that a KP-3 for live sampling and looping and whatever synth you want (or just use the tetra controlled by the MPC) and you can do everything in both of your scenarios, for less than the cost of a MDUW.

I am asking if people have made a similar or even relatable decision and what the outcome/feeling of their decision was, because they may raise a point that I have not yet considered.

The closest to that would be when I was deciding whether or not to use a computer for live shows. But then it's not actually that much of a decision, if I want to do the stuff that a computer does then I use a computer, if I don't then I don't.

It basically sounds to me that you want to go with option 1 but you don't think it's going to be cutting edge or something.

1) I love step sequencers. I love mixers and delays. It takes me away to another dimension. BUT I feel that it's quite an old sound now though.. I dont think there are any new innovations waiting to happen here.. everything I make from this method will sound the same as the music I've already heard.. although its still fun making that music, getting taken away by it.. I dont know if I want to be so dwelling on the past when I'm still not really old... well that's not quite what I mean. but I think you understand.. I feel like I'd just be clinging to one thing

2) I feel will give me a much more exciting (to me) way of working.. but it wont be as 'deep' if that makes sense.. seems like I wont get that same kind of hypnotic-techno vibe and I can never achieve the same kind of rhythms with live playing as I can with step sequencing...

Both styles lead to slightly different music..

I think you can have sequenced stuff going and dub mix it and add live looped stuff in as well, to get the best of both worlds. The budget isn't an issue.

[edfunction]

thanks for the thoughts..

(....again... I do not want to run sequenced material into a looper, I have no interest there - so there is no point in me creating a hybrid halfway between these 2 setups)

that's not really what i am suggesting. i am talking about using the sampler to sequence samples not actually loop sequences. i just mean having samples in a basic machine-mixer-fx techno setup really gives you extra flexibility.
to me, mpc+522 seems like a pretty perfect solution for drums and midi actually.

perhaps there are other valid configurations than the two you are suggesting. obviously when money is an issue you have to make compromises. it's up to you i guess.

[meatballfulton]

You wrote "live performance" so is this for actual gigs?

Solo gigs?

What's your audience?

You already have a lot of gear, what can't you do with what you have now?

[cartesia]

Sorry guys, none of the gear listed in my VSE profile has been mine for quite a while.

As for the rest of the thread... I seem to have failed in explaining my questions,
I'll just flip a coin.

thanks for your time

[Ashe37]

Both of your described ways of working are still 'old school' techniques for working. I guess it comes down to hardware versus software in this instance but... option 1 is like, 80s technique and option 2 is more like 90s technique. Also it means hauling lots of gear to a gig which if you're the opening band for the opening band for the headline band having a huge amount of stuff on stage is kinda frowned on these days. I guess it also depends on your genre...

[cartesia]

yeah, they are still oldschool, I just feel there is more for me to explore with looping, since I've been doing step sequenced stuff for ages, and listening to that kind of music all my life.. I think there is new ground to be broken there as well though.. perhaps there is with sequenced stuff too, I just can't figure it out myself - playing guitar is pretty oldschool, but people keep coming up with new things to do

It doesn't seem like that much gear to me.. 2-3 smallish desktop pieces + some pedals..
Also I dont roll in the bands scene.. it's pretty easy to setup during hour long DJ sets, then a DJ is most likely gonna be after you as well

But even so, my aspirations to play out are not particularly existant beyond a small bit... I got to the point DJing where I played at a few good events in decent sized clubs.. I worked so hard to get to that point where I actually got to play to a reasonable number of people, only to find that I actually wasn't that thrilled by it..

I'd much rather have fun at home than worry about annoying someone by setting up my gear on a stage!

[meatballfulton]

Well you just answered your own question...go with the looping setup.